Rise of the Werewolf Cats: a New Breed Is Born

Rise of the Werewolf Cats: a New Breed Is Born


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photo: Lykoicats.com

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photo: Lykoicats.com

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photo: Lykoicats.com

There’s a new breed of cat silently lurking in the moonlight: the Lykoi, or Werewolf Cat (lykoi from the Greek word meaning “wolf” – so, literally, ‘wolf cat’). I kid you not, this a real “up-and-coming” breed of cat that’s being developed by a group of breeders who initially worked with hairless cats. Their appearance may be slightly off-putting, but there really is no reason to fear these wolf-like kitties. They’re characterized by a lack of hair surrounding their eyes, nose, ears, and muzzle, with a patched coat on the rest of the body. You might be wondering just how a werewolf cat came to be…

From the Lykoi website:

“The Lykoi Cat is a natural mutation from a domestic shorthair that has the appearance of a werewolf.  The mutation has occurred in other cats, but to date, no reports of anyone starting a breed have been made.  Our founding cats come from two unrelated litters.  The first litter was presented to Patti Thomas as a natural occurring Sphynx mutation (they were born around July 2010).  The mother was a black domestic shorthair.  Upon receiving the kittens, (a brother, sister, and their mother), she knew they were not Sphynx.  This confirmation was done with DNA testing for Devon/Sphynx gene which the kittens did not have.”

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photo: Lykoicats.com

So the cats were not some type of Sphynx (hairless) cat that just retained some of its hair. No, these were something else entirely. However, everyone wanted to make sure the cats with this mutation weren’t sickly or suffering in any way before they decided to start a breeding program. Testing was done to rule out any genetic illness:

“Upon starting the program, we decided that testing would need to be done to ensure that we are not dealing with disease or disorders causing the hair coat appearance.  Infectious disease tests were performed first in my clinic.  DNA testing was done by UC Davis to confirm that these cats do not carry the Sphynx/Devon gene.  We also performed a DNA panel for genetic disease, color, and blood type.  At the University of Tennessee, dermatologists examined them for any skin abnormalities (and they too fell in love with these cats and we have quite a fan club there!).  Along with biopsy samples of the skin, the dermatologists could find no reason for the coat pattern. What they did find is that some hair follicles lacked all the necessary components required to create hair (which is why they lack an undercoat). They also found that the follicles that were able to produce hair, lacked the proper balance of these components to maintain the hair (which is why the Lykoi do molt and become almost completely bald from time to time).  Our cardiologist performed some cardiac scans to look for any structural problems with the heart.

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photo: Lykoicats.com

In the end, we found that the cats are healthy, and the hair pattern is not from any known disease or disorder.  It was determined that it was indeed a true natural mutation, and our breeding program began.  September 14, 2011 we welcomed the first kitten from a Lykoi Cat to Lykoi Cat breeding…. She has been named “Daciana” and to date she is the only known second generation Lykoi.”

In 2012, the Lykoi went before the The International Cat Association (TICA) and were passed to “Registration Only” status. This means that they are now a recognized breed with TICA.

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photo: Lykoicats.com

To learn more about Werewolf Cats, visit the website www.lykoicat.com and follow the Lykoi cats on Facebook.

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  • Kristi Lee Hall

    This is crazy! I wonder how many of these guys there are in the world?!

  • mimi boothby

    these animals should be neutered. They have defective hair follicle genes. Enjoy them and neuter them. They don’t exist in any gene pools because they can’t survive. THere are too many perfectly good cats getting put to sleep every single day to create a new “breed” of defective cats..

    • Serenity Lithae

      Saying that is pretty ignorant, almost all domestic cat breeds, and ALL domestic dogs species are a result of human intervention in the breeding process. Just because you consider the mutation a defect, doesn’t mean it is in reality. These cats are not unhealthy, and the mutation is a natural one, people are just bringing them together.

      Humans did not “create” anything here. You should have at least read the whole article that you commented on, you may have saved yourself from looking ignorant.

      • mimi boothby

        calling it a breed is the human creation. Getting two of them together that would never have met before is a human intervention. They should be neutered. Go adopt a homeless pet on death row.

        • LClark

          What I was most interested in they didn’t really touch on – allergies – If this mutation causes the cat to have less dander then it may actually be worthwhile to allow them to breed and create a new breed.

          • Austin

            my thoughts exactly

          • genaphur

            Most people aren’t allergic to the dander, but to an enzyme they have in their saliva.

          • Jamie Nova

            Actually genaphur it is the DANDER that most people have allergies to. My best friend cannot even enter a house that has a pet cat because the DANDER is everywhere. There is no licking going on.

        • Ziggy

          I have about 50 animals rescued from death row, is that good enough for you up there on your high horse? And I still don’t have a problem with these as long as they’re healthy. I fail to see how anyone could other than just ‘because I can’.

          • Joanne Kennedy

            Why would it be good to breed animals when others are being killed daily? Just for money? What we used to call Mutts are now called a fancy breed. Why? For the almighty dollar. Sad

          • Ziggy

            Why assume everyone who breeds does it for money? GOOD breeders don’t make money, they lose money. In the species I work with, good breeders are VITAL to improve health. Without them, the animals would be dying at a year of age of cancer and respiratory problems. If you’d rather ban all good breeders, you’re effectively saying you’re happy to watch animals die young of disease that could be prevented or lessened via reputable breeding. I think thats vile, personally…..

          • Joanne Kennedy

            Oh please! The majority of breeders do it for the money and that is a known fact. Look it up if you need to. That is why our shelters and pounds are full of unwanted dogs that are of every breed. Once the breeder finds out they can’t sell all of the puppies or kittens and they start to grow up they ship them off to the shelters and pounds as it’s no longer worth them paying to feed them. Funny how it’s also proven that most “mutt” breeds are just as healthy if not more then the pure breeds. I have no idea where you are getting your made up information from but you really need to do your research better before you post.

          • Ziggy

            A proven fact? Then you can provide unbiased reports that state such, and have proof to support it? No? Didn’t think so. Yes, there are a lot of crap breeders out there who do it only for money, but there are also wonderful breeders who breed to better health and temperament as a priority. I don’t know what country you come from, but here, we have a lot of wonderful breeders. So lets see, this was my breeder, tell me if he’s ‘crap’ in your eyes: He had been in the breed 30 years, his parents before him, he worked his dogs and allowed them to do what the breed was intended to do. He only bred from dogs with clear health, and he health tested and screened ALL his dogs, at huge cost to himself. He would only breed from health tested dogs with correct temperament, and working ability. He raised all the puppies in his living room, well loved, well socialised. He screened any potential buyers very thoroughly, he had a clear statement that if EVER a dog he bred was not wanted, it was returned to HIM and not put into a shelter. He was at the other end of the phone 24/7 to give advice to any owners who needed it, he only bred rarely, and when he passed away, he requested that if someone wanted to do something in his memory, they donate to a doberman rescue, or an organisation working to eradicate DCM from the breed. He did not turn a profit on his puppies. In fact, he lost money. Once you take in stud fees, transport, veterinary care for the mother, scans, the cost of health testing, any money one may have to spend on birth complications if they arise, feeding a nursing mum and growing litter, cleaning up after 9 puppies, and so on, most GOOD breeders don’t break even, let alone profit.

            Crap ones do, because they cut corners and don’t do things properly. But GOOD breeders are a world apart. Its tragic that all you’ve ever been exposed to are crap breeders, no wonder you have such an innaccurate and blinkered view.

            So tell me, given that my breeder requested ANY dog he bred was returned to him in the event it was no longer able to be kept, even if that was 10 years later, how exactly would his dogs end up in rescue? When he will take any and all of them back to avoid this?

            YOU are the one who needs to educate yourself, and stop lumping people into categories and looking at the world as purely black and white.

          • Joanne Kennedy

            I never said they were all bad. I said the majority were. I am in the USA. Not sure where you are. But, even though your “friend” asked to have the dogs back if they were ever not wanted does NOT mean he would always get them back. People often just do what is easiest for them and if dumping a dog at a shelter is faster/easier then that is what they would do. Perhaps your “friend” means well but there are still thousands of dogs being put down ever day and forcing dogs to have more puppies is just wrong. There is nothing you can say to change that fact.

          • Ziggy

            Why put ‘friend’ like that? He was a friend, but he only became so because he was my breeder first and foremost, and he is dead now. There are more like him than you seem to think. And nothing you say can change that fact. The only way some breeds will be eradicated from their health issues is by good breeders health testing and only breeding healthy dogs. Without that, their health will decline further if we leave them in the hands of back yard breeders and puppy farms. Good breeders should be embraced as part of the solution, not the problem. We’ve managed to remove several awful health issues from some dogs just via responsible breeding, and frankly, as someone who has watched her rescue animals die far too young due to crap breeding, I welcome people working to get rid of health problems. If you are happy seeing animals die young of health issues we could help prevent, well, then we can’t see eye to eye.

            Maybe it is different in the US, but here we have lots of very responsible breeders who are totally in it for health and welfare, nothing more.

          • Joanne Kennedy

            So where are you from? Perhaps trying to breed rats to live longer is one thing but if you honestly think that most breeders force animals to have babies because they are trying to fix health problems then you are mistaken. Just how do you think they do that? Do they get the DNA and pull out the gene that causes sickness. Just taking two healthy animals and forcing them to have babies will not give a stronger breed. You really need to study up on what you are speaking about. You are showing how little you really know about this subject. It’s almost as if you are writing bla bla bla. That is how silly you are sounding.

          • Ziggy

            I never said most breeders. I said a good deal of them, not as few as you seem to think. You are showing how little you know about how breeding works. Certain conditions are inherited, or partly inherited, ie, two parents who got cancer are more likely to create children who get cancer. If you only breed from animals who have NOT demonstrated that disease, you create offspring with a better resistance to that disease. Some conditions can be tested for in dogs: thats what health testing IS. If a dog is shown to have a genetic condition, like the clotting disorder dobermans have, then they know not to breed from that dog.

            This is why good breeders only breed from healthy animals and health tested animals.
            CRAP breeders just throw two together, without knowing anything of their health history and end up producing dogs that can be carrying anything in their genes. Most good breeders know what conditions do and do not exist in their dogs genetic lines, and so can make informed choices on which dogs to breed.

            You keep saying I need to study up before speaking and blah blah, but I’ve consistently explained my opinions with logic and facts, whereas all you’ve shown is anger and ignorance.

            Im not a breeder. I’ve never bred anything. I rescue. But I happen to also support efforts to breed healthier, happier animals. You can do both. The world is NOT black and white.

          • Joanne Kennedy

            No you can’t really be on both sides unless you look at one of them for a job. How can you look a sweet healthy animal in the eye and then send him or be the one to kill them? Knowing that every breeder that forces other animals to kick out babies just puts one more healthy animal to be killed? Perhaps you think of them as just an animal where as the other of us think of them as part of our family. It’s like knowing there are thousands of babies waiting to be adopted but then you say, forget them, let’s try to make a perfect human. Also just because a breeder thinks they are able to make an animal heather does not mean they live longer. Again, do your research you will find that pure breeds do NOT live longer and in fact often die at younger ages because of being crossed with another animal that it shouldn’t have been. A living life is not a toy. It is not something to be fooled with. Please take classes, learn the truth about what is going on before you post any more. Hanging out with “friends” that breed animals and fill your head with reasons with why it should be ok is just their way of feeling like what they are doing is ok. Please study and take classes and I’m sure you will find you have just been misguided. It’s not your fault. You have been fed a bunch of lies and you believed your “friends”.

          • Ziggy

            I’ve personally never been responsible for sending an animal to be killed, as I’ve stated MANY TIMES, I rescue. I’ve been out in the last week to actually physically save an animals life, as I do most weeks. Have you? Our sanctuary recieves no funding. I spend every penny of my minimum wage part time job on my animals, even if it means I live on noodles for a week. You don’t know me at all. And I strongly feel you’re not even actually reading my comments, because you keep coming out with the same old trite, ignorant rubbish I’ve heard for years from people like you who aren’t actually involved in animals on a day to day basis. How about YOU learn the truth before you post any more? I’ve been working in animal rescue for 16 years. I’d wager you’re not even 16 years old, by how you type, so seriously, you should stop spewing cliches and assumptions and judgements on everyone until you grow up a little and learn a bit about the real world. Im not sure why you keep putting ‘friends’ in inverted commas. Study?! LMAO. I have a qualification in animal care. Do you? I’ve run a rescue for 16 years, I’ve worked in vet nursing, I’ve worked at 4 different shelters. Come back and comment when you’ve saved as many lives as I have.

          • Joanne Kennedy

            Well then you must not work at a shelter as you first stated. Shelters DO kill animals daily. Thousands of poor healthy animals die because there are to many unwanted and uncared for animals out there in the world. Until everyone has a loving home then there is NO good reason to ever FORCE an animal to have babies to sell. I know you work with RATS which are rodents and many consider are dirty and good for nothing. I do not feel that way. I’ve owned several rats myself and love them. But they are NOT the same as a dog or cat. I think you may have your facts mixed up because of that. YES I have worked with many rescue places. I have two rescue dogs myself. I would NEVER buy an animal because I believe it’s wrong to breed them just for profit. I’m happy you think I’m not even 16. That made my day. I’m 55 and highly educated in this area. No need to throw around where I work and/or have worked. I don’t think it should matter as people may then think that only people who work in the field can help save a life. That is not true. Any way, I’m done trying to talk to you. You just talk in circles and until you get your facts straight it is useless to continue on here. Just know that for every animal that has been purposely bread another one is killed!!!! There is no way around that one my dear.

          • Ziggy

            You know what? You don’t live in the UK, so please don’t try to tell ME how it is here. Also, Im going to go ahead and do you a favour and stop replying to, so you can stop obsessively replying to me. You are not even reading what Im saying, or if you are, you’re not experienced enough in the animal field to understand it. Its like talking to a militant religious person: you can only see one view, and you refuse to acknowledge anyone else’s. I on the other hand am totally open minded: I support rescue AND ethical breeding, I can see the benefits to both. You are too blinkered to do so, and arguing with someone so shut down in their beliefs and so aggressive about them, well….I might as well be talking to my wall.

            No doubt you’ll still reply, but I won’t be reading it. Trust me, Im doing you a favour. When you mature a little, you’ll realise that.

            In the mean time, if you ever actually want to do something positive for animals, you’re welcome to come to my sanctuary and clean out cages for a few days :)

          • Lucky

            I know this thread is old but I feel like I’ve met a potential best friend, lol. I’m in agreement with pretty much all you’ve written. I’m an animal rescuer also but am vegan to boot. However, just like you, I am open minded. You have pretty much summed up my thoughts on all this. I also know one of the women mentioned in this article. I adopted (not bought) my cat from her a few years back because, gasp, she does animal rescue too. Many ethical breeders do animal rescue on the side and encourage people to adopt as well. It seems the person who keeps calling herself vegetarian ought to take the next step to become vegan if she cares about animal rights so much. The life of dairy critters in out factory farming system suck too and at the end, they end up slaughtered as well. Just my very sincere thought for her. Anyway, Ziggy, It sounds like you are a pretty cool person. Keep on rescuing! I have two poor little foster kitties right now I am still rehabbing. My doberman boy is sure a big help though; he is such a gentle boy. Fellow Doberman fanatic here ;)

            Also, a separate note for others reading this down the line. Not all of us “veggie folk” are “crazy”. It seems the ones who make the rest of us seem unreasonable spend most of their time online. Honestly, if you are a good honest person who will respect my beliefs and at least think rationally about the things I say, then I will do you the same favor and we could even be friends.

          • WingedWolfPsion

            Oh, I like this example. So, you’ll NEVER have any children of your own, right? You’re only going to adopt?

          • WingedWolfPsion

            Since when is allowing animals to breed ‘forcing’ them? And what kind of mentality creates THAT image? Unless you’re dealing with tying the animals up, or using artificial insemination (the former being a rare practice), there is no forcing going on. These are adult animals doing what they want to do.

          • Basia Nova

            For someone who works at a cat rescue shelter and deals with and has “knowledge” of breeders (dogs), it’s hard for me to understand why you hold such a staunch belief that it’s OK to keep breeding designer breeds of ANYthing.

          • Ziggy

            Designer breeds? I didn’t necessarily say that, did I? I approve of responsibly breeding healthy pets. As long as they’re healthy and bred for the right reasons (ie, to better health and temperament) and all relevent breed health tests are performed, no, I don’t have a problem.
            Because in my species, I’ve seen first hand how good breeding has ERADICATED some health issues that still plague the poorly bred ones. I don’t like seeing animals die young of disease, so yes, I do support breeding out health issues via responsible breeding.

            We are not even talkign about these cats any more, are we? This has become a general ‘bash all breeders’ thing, as often happens.

            A rescue animal isn’t for everyone……..some people can only get what they need and want from an animal by going to a breeder. If you want a working malinois to do shutzhund with, good luck finding one at a shelter, for example…..

          • Basia Nova

            We certainly are talking about these cats. Discussion and debate brings so many other subtopics into light. Duh. It’s simple. You can use all the breeding jargon you want. Not impressed. I don’t care how “safe” and “healthy” these cats are purported to be (time will surely tell). Not the point anymore for others on this forum (as far as I can read). It’s about arrogance and Ethics, the Big Buck and throw away cats with the potentiality to breed with others (creating thinner coats) and the overpopulation of our shelters. I live in the USA. I work in shelters myself (I didn’t have to mention that until now) and see how grossly overpopulated they are. Do the research. It speaks for itself. (I’m sensing that you live in either Canada, Great Britain or Australia…so I cannot speak to overpopulation issues there, yet I would assume that you have a similar statistical issue).

          • Ziggy

            Im in the UK, and no, it is different here. Not everyone lives in the US. We do have overpopulation here, as most places do, but it is not half as severe as it is in the USA. We have far, far fewer kill shelters, also. In fact, in all my years working in animal shelters, I have never heard of or had contact with a single one. They do exist, but they’re the minority of shelters in the UK. Most do not euthanise healthy animals.

            And while dogs of all breeds and ages seem to be common in US shelters, this isn’t the case here. There are a huge number of breeds you just will not ever find in a shelter in this country, no matter how long you wait. If someone wants a malinois to work shutzhund with, they HAVE to go to a breeder, because that kind of dog simply doesn’t exist in a shelter here. If someone wants a collie to herd, they will not find a stable working collie in a uk shelter. Shelter dogs do NOT suit everyone’s needs, nor does everyone WANT a shelter dog. A shelter dog is great if you are prepared and knowledgable about the health and behavioural problems such dogs might have, then by all means, rescue. But for people who would rather assure a healthy, health tested, sound temperament puppy, an ethical breeder is just as valid a route.

            I know my dog is health tested. I know he doesn’t carry VWD or wobblers and that his parents and grandparents did not die of DCM. One cannot say this of the majority of BYB dobes in the UK. Most have temperament issues with nerves, and a lot of genetic problems. The only way to assure you DON’T get a dog that will die young from these problems and will be of sound temperament is to get a breeder dog.

            I am quite happy to consider a rescue for our next dog, I have never, ever claimed anywhere here that rescue is not a good thing to do. I have simply said it is not the ONLY ethical route, nor is it right for everyone. Seems a certain group of people cannot look past their own experiences and have to view every single thing as either black or white. It is not that simple.

          • WingedWolfPsion

            If you think that having these cats in the population, potentially breeding with ferals, would result in ‘thinner coats’ in the general cat population, is it blindingly clear that you lack any understanding of the genetics involved. This is a single mutation. Either an animal carries the gene, or it doesn’t. Either it will have a coat exactly like this, or it will have a normal coat. No in between.

            If you think cats are overpopulated, then go adopt a bunch of feral cats yourself, right now. Don’t want them? Neither do the pet owners who are interested in buying a lykoi. The lykoi aren’t competition for your overpopulated feral cats.

          • Basia Nova

            I tried telling her this before – doing research et al – in my earlier posts.

          • Joanne Kennedy

            Well she works at a shelter for rats??? So she says. But I think she may be a back yard breeder. You know how they are, always saying that breeding is ok. They have to come up with some kind of stories to convince us that it’s ok to force animals to have more babies so they can make a buck. No one in their right mind feels that way.

          • w j

            How ignorant.

          • Ziggy

            A hell of a lot of ignorance going on here from people who have absolutely no idea what they’re talking about.

          • WingedWolfPsion

            Because in the real world, things are born and die every single day. That is how nature WORKS. That is how life works. If you stop producing the animals that people want to keep as pets, you’ll be left with only the ones they don’t want to keep as pets….

            You think this is a good plan?
            Stop living in a fantasy world. Being expensive is an advantage for a pet breed. Do you understand how evolution works? Hint: It’s not all about who can survive best in a harsh wild environment.

          • pk

            Ziggy I don’t understand your backing of this. Wouldn’t you rather 15 people take 15 of the cats you have waiting at your shelter than have someone make 15 NEW cats that people will take instead because it’s a new fad?

            You must realize that if this boutique animal trend becomes bigger and then the shiny newness wears off, or the animal is found to have long range issues that are not known now – or even just becomes unpopular – shelters everywhere will end up with this animal in them as well as all the others.

            I don’t understand the logic of a person in the front lines of rescue supporting making more cats of any kind.

            Neuter/spay them all should be the bottom line.

          • Ziggy

            But you’re making assumptions here. Would I rather someone take 15 animals off me than go to a crappy back yard breeder? Absolutely, yes.
            Would I rather someone take 15 animals off me than go to a good, reputable breeder who breeds for health and temperament and longevity? Nope. I’d fully support them going to a good breeder, and supporting their efforts to breed healthier examples of animals. I rescue rats: they are in dire straits when it comes to their health. GOOD breeders are the only ones working to fix this, and they do so purely for a love of the animals, they make no money.

            Not all breeders are satan. There are a ton of wonderful ones who are improving and eradicating health issues that plague some animals. How is that a bad thing?

            I have said many times that if this mutation turns out to be damaging for the animal, and health and quality of life is remotely affected, I would think again. But as of now, all we are told is that it ISN’T. Until I hear more about the health status of these cats, Im not about to whine about them just because they’re ‘new’.

          • LoveBug801

            Rescuing rats is by far not the same as rescuing cats. You can’t base your opinion of breeders off of the only species you rescue, that shows your ignorance of other species. As far as breeding cats and dogs, it should be stopped until all shelters and streets are free of homeless animals. It’s unfair to them that they have to suffer, starve, and die while humans selfishly create others simply for cosmetic purposes. Having worked in rescues for many, many years, I’ve seen puppy mill parents get dumped just because they were “too old” at 6-8 years old to breed anymore. They come in in the worst conditions because the breeder simply doesn’t care about the animal, it’s all about money. Breeding new animals while so many others die in shelters is what makes it unethical and selfish.

          • Ziggy

            Is it not? How long have you been rescuing rats in order to make that statement? I rescue rats right now, but have worked in dog and cat shelters since my early 20s…..as well as having had a number of rescued cats of my own.

            Where you’re going wrong is lumping in BYBs and puppy mills with GOOD breeders, who are a world apart. The ignorance displayed in the statement ‘creating animals for cosmetic purposes’ is horrific and suggests you actually know very little about dogs. You think people choose a breed based only on looks? You’re waaaaay off, buddy. MOST intelligent people choose a dog breed based on temperament, activity level, drive, natural instincts and tendencies, and suitability to their lifestyle. When I chose a doberman, looks were not even on my list of priorities. That breed fitted my lifestyle best because of their TEMPERAMENT.

            You think people who purchase a dog to work choose on looks? Really? Ever tried getting a pug to do shutzhund? There is a reason we use certain breeds for certain jobs, and thats because their natures and temperaments vary so hugely. You talk as if all dogs are identical except for their appearance, which shows how ignorant you are on all things canine.

            A high drive, working line doberman is NOT the same as owning a pug or a CKCS. These breeds are a world apart, and its nothing to do with looks and everything to do with temperament. What suits one family would be a nightmare for another.

            You do realise that if ‘everyone’ stopped breeding dogs, in 15 years or so, there would be no more dogs left alive on earth, right? Or are you actually pushing for the extinction of domesticated animals? Because if you are, its not worth even talking to you.

          • Basia Nova

            This. Exactly. Thank you!

          • w j

            Your problem is that you still don’t understand how the real world works.

          • Ziggy

            LMAO. I just spent my entire day working with my 50 rescued animals, what did you spend your day doing? Sitting online whining about people with different opinions to you? YOUR problem is you think the world is black and white. Don’t worry, as you mature, you realise there are huge shades of grey in every area, and not to believe everything you read online. I forgive you, I was a moron when I was a kid too.

      • Guy

        Right on the money Serenity. Its interesting that we can find intolerant zealots like mimi in any forum.

        • mimi boothby

          I have seen the immense numbers of healthy animals on death row. I have also seen what “breeders” have done to many breeds of cat and dogs to render the animals unhealthy and in some cases, unable to even procreate naturally. What do you suppose can be done with a gene pool of TWO CATS?

          • Ziggy

            The breeders have said they are healthy and the gene does NOT cause any related health issues, so what is the problem? Oh, another ‘I’ve seen animals on death row!!!’ Join the club. I RUN an animal rescue, not just pop in the work at one occasionally. And I personally see no issue with this as long as there are no related health issues and the cats have a normal quality of life. If we dismissed anything new we wouldn’t have any of the breeds we have now. IF the breed turns out to have health issues because of the mutation, I’ll join you in boycotting them, as I boycott pugs and other animal breeds that suffer for looks. But thus far, that has not occured. You say what can come of a gene pool of two cats….theres a thing called outcrossing….

          • Avadon

            That they know of! They’ve only started doing tests. You can run your cat to a few doctors and know everything that way. A lot of the problems with breeds comes with finding things out in time.

            If you run an animal rescue you should be an animal rights activist and should encourage people to stop superficial breeding that is done for the sole purpose of human vanity.

          • Jason Smith

            Actually crossbreeding two different types of cat or dog can actually create a stronger breed. This is why crossbreeding started because by over-breeding a small amount of dogs or cats of the same breeds over the centuries, they’ve actually CREATED genetic defects in the animals. By cross breeding, the new cross can often be immune to such defects because they introduce a new bloodline.

          • Avadon

            So you support the idiotic logic of breeding for a disadvantageous mutation then breeding again to create stability in health so you can have the disadvantage(mutation) without ill health benefits. That may be the single stupidest argument I’ve ever heard.

          • Jason Smith

            So breeding for disadvantageous mutations isn’t for health purposes? Weird. The idea is to create an animal that DOESN’T have those defects that create ill health effects. That’s the whole purpose behind it. Like, for instance, breeding a Schnauzer and a Poodle. Schnauzers have a tendency to get a skin defect known as Schnauzer crud that is harmful to the animal. By adding the poodle into mix, the new dog is less likely to suffer from this genetic defect. So yeah, it’s TERRIBLE to want to crossbreed animals and maybe help them get over some of their genetic defects often bred into them from generations of inbreeding.

          • Avadon

            You clearly don’t understand what I’m saying. These cats are mutations and should not be bred. Just like you wouldn’t breed any other animal with defects. It’s nonsensical to have an animal with a defect and then try to breed them again so you can substantiate the original defect. Imagine if the cat had 5 limbs and one of the limbs draped uselessly at it’s side. But because human are idiots in love with stupid trends, they loved the look of the extra useless limb. Because this 5 legged animal would definitely give poor offspring if bred with another 5 legged animal, we instead breed it with a 4 legged cat. That way we can keep the 5 legs and not run into major health risks of inbreeding.

            THAT’S YOUR LOGIC!!
            If you can’t see how absolutely insane and unethical that is then there is no hope for you.

            Animals are not here for your pleasure. They have their own existence and they should have a right to live free of your dangerously insipid genetic molestation.

          • Siouxsie Wild

            who is to say that the fur is a defect? we have 3 sphynx cats at they are perfectly healthy and fine with out fur. Human men (and women) can end up balding… should we stop them from breeding too?

          • Inspector Spacetime

            Indoors they are fine. They would find it more difficult than other cats to survive without human intervention.

          • WingedWolfPsion

            Since they are a domesticated species, that is not a disadvantage. They shouldn’t BE outside unattended. In fact, it makes them even more ideal as pets. They run less risk of becoming an invasive species. If all cats carried these mutations, wildlife would be safer.

          • Avadon

            Who is to say? SCIENCE!! We’ve studied cats with hair mutations such as this and they are prone to disease, parasites and sunburn.

          • WingedWolfPsion

            Parasites? Really? Sunburn? How does an indoor cat wind up with parasites? Your claim doesn’t even make any sense.

          • Avadon

            You hit the nail on the head. They can’t go outside because of limitations with their coat. Also parasites exist in your house. One common species is fleas. There are numerous other skin parasites as well, the bulk of which hair prevents in cats.

          • WingedWolfPsion

            Cats shouldn’t go outside anyhow, so what difference does that make?

            Fleas are MUCH less likely on hairless cats… they would have trouble hanging on. But, these cats do have hair, just less of it. Their risk would be the same or less as a normal-furred cat. Plus, cats that never go outside are very unlikely to ever wind up with fleas. Ditto goes for other parasites.

            I have no idea what sort of house you live in, where there are parasites that can infect cats all over the place. Please name a skin parasite that is prevented by having hair.

          • Tim Abeyta

            Avadon, do you have blue eyes, how about brown? Guess what! You are a mutation! Brown hair? Mutation! Every single genetic trait is the result of a mutation. By your logic a woman with two different colored eyes should be made sterile. Or the man who was born with 6 fingers on his right hand. Not the same? What do think outbreeding is? But hey its an animal so it cant be the same. Hypocrite.

          • Deyan

            > Talks about animal rights.
            > Doesn’t want these cats to breed.

            Lol. Holy fuck. Sound the alarms everyone. Cognitive dissonance alert!

          • Avadon

            I don’t think you know what cognitive dissonance is. I don’t want mutations that are prone to disease to breed. That’s utterly inline with animal welfare!

          • Deyan

            “You clearly don’t understand what I’m saying. These cats are mutations and should not be bred”

            Boy, you have a shit understanding of genetics then. You hear the word “mutation”, as if it is a bad thing (we are all products of millions upon millions of years of mutations, genius) and you immediately think with your emotions rather than with your brain. Then you talk about a defect. What exactly is defected in these cats? And if there is a defect that allows the animal to continue to be selected for, then it’s not really a defect is it, so long as it keeps them reproducing. Maybe you should try reading the fucking article, which clearly states:

            “In the end, we found that the cats are healthy, and the hair pattern is not from any known disease or disorder. It was determined that it was indeed a true natural mutation, and our breeding program began. “

          • David Firnhaber

            the defect is in the sheer number of pets that are put down every day because people keep breeding them and selling them or even giving them away, or even paying someone to take them off their hands. They then end up not taken care of, and eventually neglected to the point of no return.

          • Deyan

            Uh, I think you might want to brush up on your dictionary skills in understanding what “defect” means.

          • WingedWolfPsion

            I have a scary revelation for you. If people stopped breeding cats deliberately tomorrow, they would still be overpopulated (forever). This is because, contrary to popular opinion, cats do not require our attention to survive and reproduce. Like any wild animal, they do that just fine on their own. They evolved to live off of our garbage, and the rodents it attracts. We didn’t make them this way – we just made it so the more docile animals had an advantage over the aggressive ones (that’s domestication).

            There is no reason why we shouldn’t be able to selectively breed cats to produce the ones that we think make the best pets.

            If you want to complain about the overpopulation of feral invasive cats, go round them up and take care of it. Aggressively eliminate them. Then they will not be able to keep breeding.

            Don’t blame responsible breeders of $1000 cats for some neglectful owner who has 30 unaltered cats living in their back yard, breeding.

            Cats are not interchangeable. The person who wants a $1000 cat doesn’t necessarily want a random alley cat. It doesn’t work that way.

          • Basia Nova

            Wow..’intelligent’ way to make an argument by putting someone else down! Way to go! *smh*.
            Actually, Avedon has been nothing but intelligent and compassionate in his thinking processes and in his ability to make a valid argument.

          • Deyan

            That’s sarcasm right? Compassionate? He goes around calling other people idiots for not thinking the same way as him, meanwhile, showing a great lack of understanding of how genetics principles works.

          • Basia Nova

            I have no personal allegiance to Avedon, but I will say that I support anyone who writes an intelligent and compassionate commentary that is based on a true understanding of a given topic. He thinks. I like that.
            I have read that he implies that others may be idiotic, and what not, though usually when he’s become frustrated when someone doesn’t make a tenable point in their argument…there’s a big difference. But you flat out seem to resort to ad hominem (attacking the characteristics of the writer) to make your point. Yes, compassionate in the sense that he, as with some of us, care about the Big Picture and how these designer breed animals aren’t the best solution to an already staggering overpopulation issue.

          • Deyan

            Plenty of people have made “tenable points” in their argument, which have been dismissed without any kind of rational response. If I had to guess, you sound like you’re a personal friend, or maybe even an alternative account of his, because your position makes zero sense. If it’s your compassion that unites the both of you, well compassion is a weak standard to hold someone’s argument so highly as opposed to actual facts (the facts being that this natural mutation is totally normal, and the arguments presented against it have been an appeal to emotion, and rather contradictory — cognitive dissonance like I said. Basically, it sounds like people are scared because the cat isn’t “pretty”, yet if it was a “pretty” breed, I doubt there would be any objections). And there is no overpopulation issue here. What a bizarre statement that was.

          • Basia Nova

            I don’t know Avedon from a hole in the ground. Ha…what an assumption!
            Compassion is not weak. What a bizarre statement to make, yourself.
            This has nothing to do with “pretty” cats and people’s choices…that is your own projection (look up that psychological term) onto the argument.
            I’m not going to engage you any further except to say that he, myself and others in this forum have made very strong, intelligent, compassionate and VALID arguments as to why designer breeds of cats (or any other animal) should be seriously considered. There is an overpopulation of animals in shelters ALL the time…that is why they are killed…too many. It’s hard for me to understand why you hold such a staunch belief that it’s OK to keep breeding designer breeds of ANYthing.

          • Deyan

            Compassion is weak when used to justify an argument; it’s a logical fallacy.

            https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/appeal-to-emotion

            Keep boasting about how valid your arguments are, without addressing any of mine. You present nothing but red herrings, and quite frankly, are nothing but a speed bump in this discussion. And the fact that there is an overpopulation of animals in animal shelters is relatively non-sequitur; it has nothing to do with this article which exemplifies the actual science of cross-breeding for certain traits and characteristics, and how interesting this cross-breed is. Leave it to an animal activist though, who much like creationists, miss the point of everything.

          • Basia Nova

            Ha ha! Interesting how you feel you need to defend yourself so rigorously and attack anyone who calls you out on your argumentative logical fallacy tactics. Again, you go on with the assumptions (equating me, and others, to Creationists? You have no idea who you are speaking to). In your first response to me, you showed your true colors and inability to make logical (and unemotionally-based) points by accusing me of being Avedon or connecting me to him in some way! That was quite amusing. He, Mimi and others speaks eloquently for me and others on this Forum, that was simply my point. “Speed bump” *smh* I know what I know…I don’t need to prove anything to you or to present the proof/research and scientific understanding of said issue when there are others who have clearly presented that already. That was my other point. It’s all clearly there in books,the Internet, etc…and anyone who has statistically done the research on shelters, breeders, mutations, selective breeding etc knows and understands the Big Picture involved. You sound like a breeder and/or most certainly someone who has never worked/volunteered at an animal shelter. Am I right? So go on…keep attacking, if that’s what makes you feel better about yourself and your flimsy logic. Keep using words like “compassion” to twist into making yet another flimsy point about debate. You don’t seem to understand what that word means or how it was used in my discussion. But ah well, par for the course…G’day, sir.

          • Deyan

            Interesting how you respond after announcing your leave. Interesting how you say you called me out on my argumentative logical fallacies, yet never mentioned one. As for the rest of your babble, I really don’t care. The fact that you say you don’t feel like providing any scientific proof to back up anything because you’re too lazy (or ignorant) to do so, shows that this discussion was over a long time ago. Of course, when you say you won’t provide any scientific research, I interpret that as “I have nothing”. Present a point, instead of feeling victimized by everybody or please continue to suck my balls. Thanks.

          • Basia Nova

            Ha ha ha! Nope done with you and your immature attacks.(And, yes, Ad hominem…to answer your statement on calling you out…but, I guess you couldn’t retain that information due to your high emotional levels).

          • Deyan

            Lol and to dismiss my points because I resorted to ad hominems is a fallacy in itself:

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_fallacy

            i.e. if I were to call you a fucking imbecile with the intelligence of hog shit, and in the same sentence say the sky is blue, the former part of the sentence still doesn’t negate my latter point.

            At this point, you look like a tool for continuing to respond after announcing your leave 3 posts ago. But keep going.

          • Austin

            “If I had to guess, you sound like you’re a personal friend, or maybe even an alternative account of his” where exactly in that did you see an assumption? “If I had to guess” is hardly any sort of assumption, it’s a guess. and honestly it’s a reasonable thing to wonder about when somebody shows up out of the blue and just agrees with everything some other person says and posts compliment after compliment about that person. you’d be surprised how many people do that… or maybe you wouldn’t be surprised at all.

          • Basia Nova

            Really? Your stance sounds pretty paranoid to me. Ever consider supporting others in debate? Especially when they make eloquent points that others can relate to? I don’t know what forums you’ve joined in on…maybe not too many (?), but to make an assumption (as Deyan did) and then for you to agree with it, speaks volumes on your maturity level.

          • Austin

            I’m sorry, you seem to have not read anything I just said. I just explained to you that there is a very important distinction between making a guess (which could be wrong) and assuming that something is surely the case. Deyan did not make an assumption, your continued insistence that he did amounts to fallaciously misrepresenting his argument. I think refuting a dumbed down version of your opponent’s position is what really speaks volumes about one’s maturity level.

            Yes, I am absolutely willing to support others in a debate. that’s what I’m doing right now if you hadn’t noticed. If somebody here who was arguing for eradication of these cats had actually made some good arguments I would have no problem agreeing to disagree. but in my opinion nobody has even come close. you guys are not even engaging in a substantive debate with people on the other side of the issue, you keep using straw men and saying that anybody who disagrees with you is immoral.

          • Zach Archer

            So we shouldn’t breed them for reasons that you consider their hair a defect? Ok. Let’s map a scenario. Say we have two humans. Such as avadon and basia nova. Avadon has one blue eye one brown eye. Basia has short brittle hair. Both are mutations of the human species. Neither mutation causes any serious health risk. Neither should ever be allowed to breed for fear of their “defects” being passed on. That is what is being implied by them to said cats. No I do NOT agree with breeding for pleasure but is it really our call to end the breeding life of a new cat because it has less hair? Every species on the planet has mutations that can be a health issue. According to these two, find the ones that have a possible health risk and neuter them. Put them down. Every mutation has pros and cons. This cat has a hair mutation. You say no breeding. Then I say no breeding a Pomeranian Chihuahua. Their mutation is the hair and tail. The same principle applies to my saying no and yours. Health risks are evident in every living species. Your point of stopping this cat breeding is no longer valid. Mutations, whether natural or not, made life as it is today.

          • Deyan

            Bravo good sir. Glad I wasn’t the only one suspicious of this dude.

          • Basia Nova

            Ha ha ha! Love this. So entertaining! And, I’m not a dude…so tickled right now. Thank you…I haven’t laughed this hard in a while.

          • Avadon

            hahah yah apparently you’re my other account, even though I only have one facebook. For these stooges it’s so hard to imagine that two people would consider superficial desginer breeding of this magnitude to be unethical. Actually, not only unethical but dangerous for these cats, as we are breeding mutations, such as hair loss which is known to be problematic in cats and dogs and make them susceptible to health conditions and disease.

          • Basia Nova

            Exactly! Ha ha…Gasp!…we must be in cahoots, or the same person, to be supportive of intelligent commentary. On another note, the assumption that I was a dude says a lot, too. Guess women can’t make strong points?! *sarcasm* But, really, I think we’re dealing with teenagers…at least that’s how it comes off – the maturity level – from all the attacking. SMH… (and, sorry for misspelling your name in my posts).

          • Avadon

            Agreed. The lack of intelligence in here is striking. Anyone can google the considerable health issues with hairless and partial haired cats, and yet who cares about the animals if it looks cute to humans. There is such a lack of empathy here it’s staggering. A massive component of empathy is to put yourself in anothers place. I certainly wouldn’t want to be the one human that was covered in thick fur just because someone thought it novel to experiment with genetics and now my life is fraught with difficulty and health issues. I mean seriously, the lack of insight here is astounding.

          • Basia Nova

            Agreed, on every account. Empathy, so important to factor into the discussion. The facts are out there for our arguments, but not one of these imbeciles could show proof as to why it would be advantageous to breed this cat. As far as I can tell, their argument is that it’s OK in having an unusual-looking fad-cat, at their expense; a perk for the humans but not for the cats. SO sad.

          • Avadon

            That’s exactly what the best defense is here. It’s not hurting anyone (human), so who cares if we bring animals into the world haphazardly. Animals that are common to have known genetic disorders and dermatological issues.

            And because the pro-article says their fine, oh well they must be. Because everything you read on the internet is true. (eyeroll)

            If you make this same case with humans it reduces to absurdity, but apparently if you make the case for animals to be bred this way it’s fine.

          • Basia Nova

            Yup…I hear you. As far as the peeps we’ve been debating with: “The definition of stupid is the inability to see another side to an argument other than one’s own.” ― James Rozoff
            (AND…a great indication when someone is losing an argument is when they start resorting to personal insults…)

          • Avadon

            Well that and conspiracy theories. Like everyone who disagrees is the same account. LMAO

          • Austin

            I am laughing so hard at this. Just so you know, you literally just now implicitly called us stupid and then, in the same fucking post, said “a great indication when someone is losing an argument is when they start resorting to personal insults”. Do you even realize what an obvious fucking hypocrite you are?

          • WingedWolfPsion

            Your meaning is a little unclear. Are you advocating eugenics?

          • Avadon

            No it never was unclear. You just are new here or aren’t bothering to read everything on the page. I’ve already said a thousand times over I’m against breeding that promotes disadvantageous mutations and these mutations are susceptible to health risks just like the sphinx cat.

          • WingedWolfPsion

            You haven’t provided any evidence that there are any health risks associated with this mutation (which is not a Sphynx). You’re making assumptions based on studies of completely unrelated mutations.

          • Avadon
          • WingedWolfPsion

            Please explain how this cat is at a disadvantage? I can easily explain the advantage: this cat costs $1000 or more. Owners willing to pay that much for a cat are much more likely to take very good care of it. That’s a big advantage. Your turn.

          • WingedWolfPsion

            Animals are not interchangeable. Ending the reproduction of designer breeds doesn’t mean that the people who wanted them will now all adopt a bunch of mixed-breed strays. Doesn’t work that way. Even if it did, the numbers would make no difference to the overpopulation issue. That issue is the result of the fact that cats don’t require human intervention to survive and breed.

          • Avadon

            No! I’ve appealed to science and ethics, neither of which you give a shit about. That’s why you’re an idiot!

          • Austin

            and I’m guessing that your support of “anyone who writes an intelligent and compassionate commentary that is based on a true understanding of a given topic” extends almost exclusively to people you just happen to agree with. lots of people have made intelligent, tenable and well though out points against people arguing for eradication here. and avadon has responded by “intelligently” refuting a ridiculous straw man of their argument. if that’s what you call intelligence then I hope to god you think I’m an idiot.

          • Basia Nova

            Whatevs, brah…whatevs.

          • WingedWolfPsion

            These designer breed animals are irrelevant to the overpopulation issue.

          • Avadon

            I’ve been an animal rights advocate and vegetarian for 25 years. When I see people totally ignoring the reality of science, I’m well within my means to call such fools idiots!

            Breeding mutations that are prone to disease, skin infections, parasites, sun burns and an assortment of dermatological disorders is not ethical and never has been. They are trying to sell this new breed in the article and pushing it heavily. There is no rational counter point except a few comments on this page.

            Deal with it!

          • Deyan

            Are you bragging when you say you’re an animal rights advocate and vegetarian for the last 25 years? Animal rights advocates don’t follow science or the scientific method most of the time: case in point, you. You think the mutations are prone to disease, (and parasites… are you sure about that? Do you even know how parasites are transmitted) when the article already said, the cats were totally healthy. Learn to read. Also, we don’t have hair, yet I don’t walk outside and see tons of people with melanoma or skin cancer. Your understanding of genetics and traits are abysmal.

          • Avadon

            I am saying I would have a hell of a lot more interest in protecting animal welfare then you would.

            And yes I am sure about that. Mutations of hairlessness in cats make them prone to respiratory infections as kittens.

            Also hairless, or cats with partial hair are susceptible to genetic disorder such as hypertrophic cardiomyopathy (HCM). They are also prone to a neurological disease called hereditary myopathy.

            Forgetting the genetic part of it for a moment, the lack of hair itself makes cats prone to urticaria pigmentosa and cutaneous mastocytosis.

            You clearly don’t know shit about evolutionary science and adaptation. Obvious strawman comparing humans to cats. Cats have evolved hair for millions of years and then you breed a mutation that would likely be the death of an animal in the wild and think it’s fine. Well SCIENCE and MEDICINE tells us, for reasons I already mentioned that it’s not. Get a life, idiot!

          • Deyan

            For the last time, READ THE FUCKING ARTICLE. These kittens aren’t hairless, you illiterate cumbucket. Shut the fuck up already.

          • Avadon

            Are you this fucking stupid? Did you not understand that they are trying to sell the breed to enthusiasts? Therefore they are not telling you all the known medical health issues that come along, both congenitally and from the lack of hair itself, with breeds like this. Tell me you are not this retarded. Fuck sake!

          • Deyan

            THERE ARE NO KNOWN MEDICAL HEALTH ISSUES ASSOCIATED WITH THE BREED AS INDICATED IN THE ARTICLE, AND THEY STILL HAVE HAIR.

            And even if there was, you think PURE BREEDS are free from congenital disorders? Go google a fucking pure-bred German Shephard and see all the health problems that’s associated with them.

            You fucking vegans man. Most annoying cunts on the planet.

          • Basia Nova

            You again?! Eeee gads, this is getting old.
            Tell you what: Please help me change my mind to your reasoning – to agree with your argument – by providing evidence, proof, societal benefits, et cetera, as to why it would be advantageous to breed this cat. And, I’m not talking about the boorish and tiresome mutation jargon you continue to spew. As far as I can tell, your argument is that it’s OK to breed a fad-cat, at their expense; a perk for the humans but not for the cats.
            And by the way, when you told me to suck your balls…here’s the thing, balls are weak and sensitive…I’d rather suck a vagina, now those are tough and take a pounding!
            Remember, dearie…provide facts, data and evidence to support your argument or STFU.

          • Deyan

            “by providing evidence, proof, societal benefits, et cetera, as to why it would be advantageous to breed this cat”

            I never said anything of the sort that, this breed specifically holds “benefits”, I just encourage cross-breeding because it’s healthy and scientists learn more about how genes work from cross-breeding (after all, cross-breeding is responsible for many of your fruits & vegetables — including cauliflower, broccoli and lemons).

            The article claimed that these cats were healthy, so the burden of proof isn’t on me, the burden of proof is on the person making the claim, i.e. you. If you think that these cats are going to grow up to be unhealthy in some kind of way, prove it. It’s not up to I to “disprove” a negative.

          • Basia Nova

            Remember, evidence to support your stance…
            or STFU.

          • Deyan

            lol k

          • Austin

            How about evidence to support your stance? He explained gently and compellingly that the burden of proof is not on us the prove that breeding these cats is beneficial (nobody even said that, it’s yet another straw man), preliminary information suggests they will be just fine. And the sources avadon gave me after much prodding hardly provide any sort of conclusive support for any of your controversial claims about this cat

            Remember, evidence to support your stance or stop commenting. Or you could just stop offering up juvenile ultimatums and continuing to talk to us when we rightly refuse to follow them.

          • Austin

            And more irrelevant talk about surviving in the wild. These animals live in captivity you fucking dunce, and the exact thing we are denying is that their mutation will lower their quality of life substantially.

          • WingedWolfPsion

            First, saying that hairless breeds are ‘prone’ to other specific genetic disorders absolutely does not apply in any way to this brand new breed.

            Second, please provide evidence that susceptibility to cutaneous mastocytosis is the result of reduced hair, and not to the specific genetic lines in hairless breeds that were studied. (One assumes that this conclusion was reached by keeping a lot of cats shaved). Just link us to the research article; that will do.

            Because frankly, it doesn’t really look like you’ve got anything, here.

          • Austin

            Glad me and Deyan aren’t the only ones who are less than convinced by this guy and his constant tide of fallacious arguments.

          • Austin

            every animal in existence is the result of thousands upon thousands of mutations. heard of evolution? how do you think that works? equating hairlessness with having an extra limb is utterly absurd. hairlessness is not a defect for animals living in captivity, it will not have a substantial negative effect on the cat’s quality of life, I know plenty of people with hairless cats that have more or less normal issues with pests and whatnot. getting sunburned every now and again does not necessarily reduce quality of life. by that ridiculous logic we should neuter all people with fair skin and freckles. an extra limb would substantially lower an animals quality of life by any standards, there is just no analogy there whatsoever

          • Avadon

            You don’t know anything about animals if you believe an animal that has had hair for millions of years can suddenly survive (in one generation) great without it.

            You know crap about evolution and adaptation. Like I said, you’re a moron. Go work at a vets office so you can see all the problems associated with skin disease. Stop trying to minimize abuse to animals like a douchebag.

          • Austin

            That is possibly the dumbest argument you’ve made so far. Having a certain trait for millions of years doesn’t necessarily mean the animal couldn’t survive more or less equally well without it in captivity. Am I also an idiot for thinking an animal that has had straight hair for millions of years can survive great (yes, in one generation) with a mutation that suddenly results in curly hair? I guess the decision to breed any dogs with traits that significantly differed (in one generation) from any of the traits wolves have had for over a thousand years was unethical too. That’s completely different? Hair is essential for survival in the wild? Well then it sure is a good thing they are domesticated animals that live in captivity then, isn’t it?

            For someone who is going on about his opponent’s lack of knowledge about evolution and adaptation you sure keep making strange arguments that reveal that you know little about the subject yourself.

            You also have a real knack for making ad hominem attacks on someone’s character (among numerous other fallacies) in the place of responding meaningfully to any of their points. For instance, fallacious appeal to emotion. You just disagree with everything your opponent says, declaring it to be obviously false to any “ethical” person without actually bothering to provide any evidence or anything beyond bizarre and irrelevant arguments to support your claims. Until you provide a trustworthy source to back up some of your claims factually nobody has any reason to accept what you say about hairlessness making a cat’s life miserable. It’s not obvious just because you say it is, if it’s so clear then post a reputable source. It should be quite easy if it’s as obvious as you keep arbitrarily insisting

          • Avadon

            Any animal can survive in captivity. Hell I could breed your child so that he has no arms and no legs. We could just make sure your child has a care assistant around the clock. That’s the insanity of your argument you present. It’s obviously not ethical just to breed anything we like simply because it’s going to be captive.

            I don’t think you fucking get it. It’s not entirely an argument about hair on the animal itself, although that is extremely important in regulating an animals core temperature, preventing parasites, and stopping respiratory illnesses, It’s the fact that the genes the animals have who create hairless animals also carry risk of diseases such as hypertrophic cardiomyopathy, urticaria pigmentosa and cutaneous mastocytosis, and periodontal disease.

            I’ve posted numerous reasons why medically and scientifically this is a bad idea to breed these animals and you’ve returned with jack shit for a rebuttal. You have nothing. The science and medicine is on my side. Now go play somewhere else.

          • Austin

            Like I have already said that’s not my argument, that’s a straw man. The gist of my argument is that creating a new breed is only unethical if that animal has a lower than normal quality of life in captivity, and I am not convinced that that is the case here.

            The science is not on your side just because you say it is. I asked for a trustworthy source, which would have been easy to provide, and you just listed a bunch of conditions you claim are associated with the hairless gene without any factual backing from a reputable source whatsoever. That’s not how a debate works, if you make a factual claim you need to be willing to back it up with factual evidence or you should not be posting.

            I’ve actually offered up plenty of rebuttals, including pointing out absurd consequences of your argument (which you ignored), noting that you have repeatedly used ad hominem fallacies instead of substantively responding to your opponents points (which you ignored) and also that your argument is based on a fallacious appeal to emotion (which you also ignored). Seems to me like all of my objections still stand and you are unwilling to address them, so your argument is unsound, period.

          • Avadon

            “creating a new breed is only unethical if that animal has a lower than normal quality of life in captivity”

            That’s your only consideration? Really!?!?! Wow for a second there I thought you had both a strong philosophical and scientific/medical ideology on this. I didn’t realize your determination was so fucking simplistic.

            Quality of life is but one of a great many things to consider when breeding animals with mutations. How about ethics, health risk, congenital defects, environmental concerns, etc. etc. ad nauseam. All of which no one has done extensive research on this animal. The Sphinx cat which is closest, has considerable care, and health risks and health considerations.

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sphynx_%28cat%29#Health_issues

            http://www.vetstreet.com/cats/sphynx#health

            http://sleekatscattery.webs.com/careofyourkitty.htm

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feline_viral_rhinotracheitis

            Here are just but a few links to show the detrimental effects (both congenital and from the lack of hair) from breeding hairless cats.

            Your quality of life argument is so fucking stupid I won’t even address it. I’ll save you the embaressment.

            Now read those quietly and stfu.

          • Austin

            There you go! That wasn’t so hard now was it? I never said quality of life is the only consideration (remember I said it was the gist of my argument) but it is the main one that I find relevant to this particular case. “ethics, health risk, congenital defects” are all things that collectively determine whether or not an animal will have a decent quality of life. After all, don’t you think a cat with horrible congenital defects or severe health risks will be extremely likely to have poor quality of life? And isn’t the reason why congenital defects and severe health risks are bad precisely because they negatively affect the animal’s quality of life, more often than not? I think that is a hell of a lot better of a measure than anything you’ve proposed. I’m not saying it’s comprehensive, it’s a useful, simple rule of thumb.

            As far as those links, they do finally provide some support for your repeated claims that hairless cats have a number of health problems. However, one of them also says “Any breeder who claims that her breed has no health or genetic problems is either lying or is not knowledgeable about the breed.” and most importantly “The Sphynx is generally healthy, but he may develop certain conditions, including hypertrophic cardiomyopathy and a neurological disease called hereditary myopathy. 

Hypertrophic cardiomyopathy is the most common form of heart disease in cats and causes thickening (hypertrophy) of the heart muscle”.

            While it’s obviously true that the Sphynx has some health issues, it’s not obviously true that their health issues are severe to the point that their quality of life will be lower than normal. Obviously owners of sphynx’s need to take extra steps when it comes to grooming, but these seem more or less comparable to other issues in many popular breeds, such as long haired cats who, depending on the length of their hair, can require lots of extra grooming. All in all I hardly think these cats are obviously going to have a significantly worse than normal quality of life, so I don’t see anything wrong with breeding them.

            Hate to break it to you but calling my “quality of life argument” simplistic is addressing it. I’m hardly the one who should be embarrassed, at least I’ve maintained a minimum amount of civility and courtesy even though I think you are a blithering idiot. Nobody who is doing well in an argument needs to resort to saying “Now read those quietly and stfu”. Interesting how you and your minion keep patting yourselves on the back for being such ethical people and yet you are saying things that no respectable person would say. Maybe your time would be better spent responding to those objections I made against your giant fallacious clusterfuck of an argument rather than adding to the giant pile of fallacious attacks on my character that you have repeatedly made.

          • Basia Nova

            Figures, just a hot wind bag full of (wordy) rhetoric.
            You still have not effectively provided a sound rebuttal to this argument as to sway me, and others, with your reasoning.
            Please provide evidence, proof, societal benefits as to why you believe it would be advantageous to breed this cat…
            or, again, if you cannot then…STFU.

          • Austin

            I’m not trying to sway you, you both have your mind made up, I wouldn’t waste my time doing that. Arguing with people is about convincing the critical audience, not the person you are debating. The more you two tell me to shut the fuck up and insult my character the worse you look, and the more crazy, irrelevant arguments and fallacies you make the more it damages your argument and your credibility. I might be long winded but at least I was minimally respectful. Regardless of how hostile things get telling someone to shut the fuck up is pretty poor form by most accounts.

            I believe I provided three tenable rebuttals to his argument, involving his use of three logical fallacies, many of them repeatedly throughout his posts. I can link you to the wikipedia pages about them if you like. Yeah I have no interest in your ultimatums or in arguing for why breeding this cat is “advantageous”, I never said anything like that.

          • Basia Nova

            Ah, Austin…but that is what debate is about…swaying the opponent to the “other side.” Changing perspective through Logic.
            You fail. Period.
            You do not have a cogent argument and instead rely on Argument from Fallacy and Denying the Antecedent which deems your argument Invalid.
            If you take STFU personally, then I don’t know what to tell you. Shit or get off the pot.

          • Austin

            Incorrect, people are stubborn and will very rarely admit that they are wrong when they are heavily invested in something being true. You two are a wonderful example actually. Have you taken classes in debate from which you have formed this opinion of yours, or was it pulled more or less out of your ass?

            Are you kidding me? Denying the antecedent? My argument was not of the “if P then Q, not P therefore not Q” form. One of my rebuttals was an argument ad absurdum, noting absurd consequences of his argument. The second was a criticism of his repated use of ad hominem attacks, and the third was a rebuttal concerning his use of the fallacy of appeal to emotion. None of those are of the proper form characteristic of denying the antecedent. That’s what an actual response looks like, you two might take note.

          • Basia Nova

            Again, provide me with credible logical evidence to sway me towards your argument on said topic…or
            …*drum roll*…STFU.

          • Austin

            No, I have not once used an argument from fallacy. I’ve taken great care to point out that my objection means that you have a bad argument, not necessarily that your conclusion is false (although I think it is). As I’ve explained I’m not arguing for the claim that breeding these cats is ethical, I’m arguing against Avadon’s claim that it is unethical, and that is all I am interested in doing. And I don’t need any evidence to reject his argument, I just need to point out the numerous fallacies within it, which I have already done and you two have failed to address them.

          • Basia Nova

            P.S. All you have done is to refute my demand for evidence by using Argument from Fallacy as your reasoning. You haven’t even tried to debate me. Instead you do so with Avadon and I find it funny that you demand him to show you evidence, yet time and time again, when I ask you to provide persuasive evidence for your argument you provide nothing! Instead, you rely on Argument from Fallacy to explain how fallacious I am (Avedon is), etc.

          • Avadon

            Yah your right, I should really keep my civility in a case where you are defending the rights of irresponsible people to breed designer pets that will go out of style as fast as 80’s hair bands, only to be later euthanized in kill shelters when they’ve outlived their short-term novelty. Yes I should definitely be more accommodating to people who really can’t see ads like this page for what they really are: a quick buck at the expense of an animals life.

            /sarcasm

          • Basia Nova

            The argument is won, Avadon.
            I have called him (them) out by asking for persuasive logic behind their stance. He (they) cannot effectively rebut your argument or provide me with ethical evidence and proof to support their argument. Done.
            And, Austin…wah wah wah…sorry your feelings are hurt about the “STFU”…but this is the real world. I have no tolerance for peeps on their High-Horse without the ability to provide sufficient persuasive argument. Your long-winded rhetoric ain’t cutting it, Austin.

          • Avadon

            It’s really embarrassing for humanity that there are people who stick up for this kind of trash and support superficiality, novelty, and vanity at the expense of animal well being.

          • Austin

            Saying that breeding any designer animals is unethical because some breeders are immoral and indifferent to the animal’s wellbeing is like saying that nobody should be allowed to own pets because some people abuse them. You two are basically a couple kool-aid drinking PETA nazis that want to shove your opinion down everybody else’s throat and call them an asshole if they won’t have it. You are incapable of having a meaningful debate with anybody with an attitude like that. That’s why you keep making fallacious arguments from emotion without relevant factual support. I’m sure you two moral crusaders FEEL like you won, but unfortunately your facts don’t agree with your position, so you haven’t won shit.

          • Austin

            No matter what anybody had said you two would have left here thinking everybody that disagrees with you is an inconsiderate moron. You called me out for persuasive logic and I failed to deliver? Well it sure is great that I’m not looking to persuade you of anything isn’t it? I’m punching holes in your and avadon’s argument by pointing out logical fallacies, and you are responding not with an intelligent, insightful counterargument, but with childish ultimatums and over-the-top personal attacks. You don’t win shit guys, sorry. An uncontested objection still stands, and I have three such objections

          • Austin

            Yes, you should, being disrespectful in a debate and misrepresenting your opponent’s argument makes you look like a biased asshole to anybody with half a brain.

            You’re right Avadon, we should just neuter all designer cats and ban the breeding of them in the future, pushing the market for such animals into the black market exotic animal trade. I’m sure that will vastly improve animal welfare.

            I guess now I should tell you to shut the fuck up for supporting animal cruelty.

          • Avadon

            Yah lets do unethical things in the open for fear of them being done in black markets. Again, STFU with these stupid arguments. You’re fucking done here. You have nothing tenable to add, nor did you from the start.

          • Austin

            And the pot calls the kettle untenable, talking point of the hour. I’ve actually made three tenable rebuttals to your argument that you seem to have ignored or straw manned,, but if you want to think that go right ahead.

          • Basia Nova

            Seriously, how old are you? If you’re going to play with the big “boys” then you need to do your research and present a tenable argument. You’ve missed Avadon’s point completely…and mine as well, from earlier posts.
            You (and Deyan-boy) can use all the mutation jargon and semantic bullshit you want. Not impressed. I don’t care how “safe” and “healthy” these cats are purported to be (time will surely tell). Not the point anymore for others on this forum (as far as I can read). It’s about arrogance and Ethics, the Big Buck and throw away cats with the potentiality to breed with others (creating thinner coats, more mutations and susceptibility to disease) AND the overpopulation of our shelters. I live in the USA. I work in shelters myself (I didn’t have to mention that until now) and I see how grossly overpopulated they are. Do the research. It speaks for itself. (I’m sensing that you don’t live in the US, but rather in Canada, Great Britain or Australia…so I cannot speak to overpopulation issues there, yet I would assume that you have a similar statistical issue). Oh, and put your big boy pants on or STFU.

          • Austin

            You’re not impressed? Wow, I’m fucking crushed. And yes, my age is entirely relevant to this conversation. Both you and Avadon really do love hurling ad hominem attacks against everybody that disagrees with you. You really seem to take every opportunity you can get to ignore everything said by anyone who is disagreeing with you for some random irrelevant reason. And again your definition of “tenable” seems to extend more or less exclusively to people who agree with you, and I sure as hell haven’t been convinced by anything you or Avadon have said.

            And what gives you the idea that I’m not from the U.S? I live in California. For somebody that was complaining about me and Deyan making “assumptions” you sure make a lot yourself. You just assumed a whole hell of a lot both about my age (21 if you must know) and where I’m from. How about stop being a hypocrite and stop talking down to people who are on the other side of this issue and stop telling them to shut the fuck up?

            You know, it really is possible for ethical people to do their research and come to a different conclusion than you on this issue. Are you really so arrogant that you can’t fathom that? This issue is much more complicated than you make it out to be, People can do their research and care greatly about animal welfare and have a different position than you do. I don’t see anything wrong with breeding new and interesting animals as long as they have a normal or better quality of life in captivity, and it has hardly been established that these cats will have a poor quality of life.

            Although all of my animals are shelter animals I don’t see adopting as a moral obligation, although it is certainly morally praiseworthy. If you think it should be viewed as an obligation I would have to ask where you think that obligation would end. There is simply too much suffering in the world (animal and human alike) to make it an obligation to spend as much of our time and resources as possible in addressing every injustice in the world

          • Basia Nova

            Please help me change my mind to your reasoning – to agree with your argument – by providing evidence, proof, societal benefits, et cetera, as to why it would be advantageous to breed this cat. And, I’m not talking about the boorish and tiresome mutation jargon you continue to spew. As far as I can tell, your argument is that it’s OK to breed a fad-cat, at their expense; a perk for the humans but not for the cats.

            Remember, provide evidence why I should change my mind or STFU.

          • Avadon

            Wow that was a mouthful. I guess your used to that sort of thing. lol You sure are long on talk and don’t know shit about feline health.

          • Austin

            If I’m going to respond to your stupid bullshit I’m going to respond to all of it, You might try actually responding to your opponent some time.

          • Avadon

            yep you made a long winded post about nothing but complaining about ad homs when your arguing an untenable position that is outright offensive; wtf do you expect.

          • Austin

            Yes Avadon, anybody who disagrees with you is outright offensive. It’s better than outright stupid. It must be nice sitting up on that high horse. At least I’ve given rebuttals of your position and responded to all of your objections to things I’ve said, even if not to your satisfaction. But your satisfaction isn’t high on my list of priorities.

          • WingedWolfPsion

            There are no disadvantageous mutations, here, so your argument makes no sense. The lykoi mutation is very advantageous. Cats that have it are in high demand by humans as pets, and will be cared for, pampered, and propagated. That’s the very definition of ‘advantage!’ It is accompanied by no identified health risks. Win/Win.

            As for what animals are ‘here for…’ They are here, like us, living on this planet, to SURVIVE. Partnering with humans is what enables them to survive better than their feral cousins. They have the right to LIVE… Always remember that word, ‘live,’ because too many animal rights activists forget it entirely, in their zeal to divorce all other species from contact with the human species. (As though no other species in the world formed mutually advantageous partnerships!)

          • Avadon

            You clearly didn’t read a damn thing I wrote on this page. I’ve already chronicled all the congenital defects associated with hairless and partial haired cats and given all the medical details with detailed links to where i found those details. I’ve also already countered this very fucking stupid argument you made about a half dozen times.

            Shortly though, your argument is akin to relying on preferential human treatment at the total expense of the animals own personal health. It’s like humans purposefully breeding children with down syndrome because we think it’s the new fad and thus they’ll be well cared for. Totally fucking stupid award goes to you. Congrats.

          • WingedWolfPsion

            This is a new mutation, so absolutely nothing you have studied that relates to other hairless breeds, applies to this one. Except maybe sunburn. (Keep them out of the sun, or use sunblock, lol).

            Children with down syndrome have disabilities. These cats have no disabilities at all. It’s actually more like deliberately breeding BALD MEN. ^_^

            Maybe shiny heads are in. No problem.

          • Avadon

            You’re wasting your time speaking to me. I’ve already proven the argument. I’m not going to rehash all the medical stuff I posted showing the problems with this mutation. If you give a shit you can find it on this page. Otherwise STFU.

          • WingedWolfPsion

            The only thing that has ANY validity is the possibility of skin issues – but many of those can be reduced or prevented through simple grooming, and keeping the home clean. There’s also absolutely no evidence at this time to suggest that this particular breed is even prone to those issues: their link to having less fur is correlation, not proven causation.

            That’s why you just don’t have a case. You’re extrapolating from unrelated breeds.

          • WingedWolfPsion

            Nothing on this planet lives in isolation. Our domesticated species live their lives intertwined with ours – because we WANT them there. Your assertion that this isn’t what THEY want is silly. Their species is what it is because they’re taking advantage of US. They evolved to make use of us. To become what we want, because we give them a survival advantage. Stop trying to apply strictly human social values to the natural world, as though it gave one whit about individual freedom of choice. Respect the REAL world. Don’t try to make it into something it’s not.

          • Nicky

            So if a human got a mutation, they should not be allowed to breed? You realize mutations occur naturally? How do you think the current humans today occured? We’re mutations. If there’s no health risks then there is no problem. Know your basic biology. If you’re going to protest something, at least do it after you’re educated about the subject.

          • David Firnhaber

            right and then since we have created such a wonderful new variant then we can see these new types being put to death. great job humans

          • David Firnhaber

            THE POINT IS WHY ARE PEOPLE STILL BREEDING THESE POOR ANIMALS!!?? don’t you know that people will buy them young have problems and throw them away, then no one will want them and they will be put down! its just the sheer numbers that is the issue

          • Ziggy

            Uh….don’t tell me what I ‘should’ be. I wouldn’t touch animal rights with a bargepole. Animal WELFARE, yes. The two aren’t the same. PETA are animal rights, and look how many thousands of animals they kill each year. No thanks. Perhaps when you’ve run a rescue for half your life, you’ll realise not everything is in black and white.

          • David Firnhaber

            thumbs up

          • Avadon

            Oh please.. stop playing ridiculous semantic games. Animal welfare, animal rights… it all boils down to not abusing animals. That’s what I am for and if you were to, you’d be against breeding animals that make them prone to disease and breeding hairlessness in animals that have had hair for millions of hears (and require hair!!) is not ethical.

          • Ziggy

            Actually its not the same thing at all: do your research. Animal welfare and animal rights are two completely separate movements. A lot of ignorant people assume they’re the same before they actually educate themselves on the matter. Some people who are pro animal rights are NOT interested in the animal welfare movement, and vice versa.

            Animal rights does not mean ‘not abusing animals’. It means not using animals for ANYTHING, from pets to therapy animals, to food, to working animals. It pushes for complete abolition of ALL domesticated animals of any kind, at any cost. Unless you’re a vegan who owns no pets, you are NOT practising animal rights.

            Animal welfare on the other hand, is about improving lives and welfare and conditions for all animals, not getting rid of them completely. Its sad that you don’t even know the huge differences between the two things you’re claiming to comment on!

            I know a lot of vegans who wouldn’t be happy being classed in the ‘welfare’ group. Learn what you’re talking about before posting please.

          • Avadon

            This is all opinion and not based on anything factual

            “Some people who are pro animal rights are NOT interested in the animal welfare movement, and vice versa.”

            Realy? WHO?!?! Haha Your arguments are nonsensical and not supported by any fact. I’ve been in activist for animal rights and their welfare for probably longer than you’ve been alive.

            Post something with some facts behind it before you try to educate others from your silly opinions.

          • Ziggy

            Then you realise that the animal rights is all about ending animal ‘slavery’ right? So no domestic pets at all, no meat, no animals used for clothing, no animals used by us in ANY manner. Unless this is what you practise, you are NOT involved in animal rights. You may be in animal welfare, but you need to educate yourself on the difference between the two, because you’re embarrassing all of us who are involved in animal welfare.

          • WingedWolfPsion

            What, people who favor animal welfare, but not animal rights, aren’t allowed to run rescues in your reality?

          • Inspector Spacetime

            Says the same people who benefit the most financially if that were the accepted-wisdom outcome.

          • Ziggy

            sure, they have a bias. But until you know for sure they are unhealthy, best just stop baaawing about it just because a ‘new’ breed has come out. If this breed had been about for thousands of years, you wouldn’t be saying a damn thing. But because its new, it instantly must be unethical.

          • Avadon

            What they are going to do is now take these cats and try to breed them with healthier cats without losing the mutation. That’s like breeding an animal with a disability that we humans find adorable than breeding it again with something healthy so said animal doesn’t have any serious health risks so we can keep it alive, and admire it for the health risk that we find “advantangeous” so we can satiate our whims and fancy.

            Unfortunately the idiots on this page simply don’t understand what you and I do and they can post till they are blue in the face, they just don’t get it. They are pet owners, not animal rights activists and there’s a damn big difference between the two.

          • pk

            So true. Cloning, breeding and experimenting with animals while millions are put to death each year because there is no one to care for them is irresponsible, short sighted and ignorant.

          • David Firnhaber

            right on

          • WingedWolfPsion

            That’s right – kill everything instead. That way, nothing will ever have to suffer. And everything is interchangeable; diversity is irrelevant. Better off dead than bred, right? End it all.

          • WingedWolfPsion

            (I hope people understood that was sarcasm).

          • David Firnhaber

            agreed

          • Bhig Bhad Wolf

            I am a pet owner, yet I would never support this ignorance. There is a difference between REAL animal lovers, and a herd of bleating idiots who will make sick excuses for the rest of the disgusting behaviour of their mentally deficient kind.

          • Eric

            Dude… I know that. Please use it for the good laugh it was intended to create.

          • Carl O Elwell

            I love animals, and I have extensive knowledge on what it takes for their survival. You’re speaking of house cats, yes? You’re the dumbest fucking thing since the crucifixion. * See post below Mimi*

          • Sweets

            I have a cat just like the ones shown above. She is 13 years old and very healthy.

          • WingedWolfPsion

            A lot, especially since the two aren’t related. You, most mutations like this one are recessive genes, which means the cats that carry the mutation will be outcrossed to cats that do not, then crossed back to carriers to create more of the type. It’s something that folks who understand genetics know how to do. ;)

          • mimi boothby

            they might understand outcrossing but eventually “linebreeding” is irresistible which leads to monstrosities like bulldogs, and miserable animals like the modern persians, and many other dog and cat breeds who have had their “desirable” traits exaggerated so far that their health has failed them.

          • WingedWolfPsion

            This is a failure on the part of breed clubs, buyers, and registries. However, increasing attention is being paid to it. These particular cats, however, aren’t at much risk for that. Assuming this is a simple recessive gene, outcrossing will be extremely easy. Exaggerating this trait in any way would destroy it – it’s the mix of fur and bare skin with no undercoat that makes it so striking.

          • mimi boothby

            humans have a way of repeating history. I hope you’re right.

          • Zach Archer

            Umm. My buddy has a bulldog and it cuddles with his kids every night. To call them monstrosities is purely opinion and not a good way to make a point.

          • mimi boothby
        • Avadon

          She’s intolerant because jackasses like you purport breeding animals solely for their looks while taking no ethical consideration into contemplation. Oh really!?!? Boy if that’s not the pot calling the kettle black.

          • man

            you sir are retarded in the brain

          • Avadon

            Says the guy who can’t write complete sentences.

            Also, I’ll take that as a concession of any argument you posted here on this website. Clearly you’re out of anything logical or pertinent to say.

          • Karolina Jones

            All breeders are shit human beings period.

          • WingedWolfPsion

            Animal rights activists who believe humans are so terrible, nothing should ever live with them; and who think that never existing at all is better than living with humans… are ABSOLUTELY FREAKING CREEPY. HORRIBLE. That is not ethical. It’s monstrous.

            Breeders love the animals in their care, and strive to make them desirable pets. Desirable pets are cared for well by humans – and that’s good for them. Taking a species that evolved to live with and take advantage of humans, and tossing it out to fend for itself is a disgusting idea, and anyone who would think that it’s okay is a monster.

          • pk

            Wow – great debate strategy there man.

        • William P. Homans

          It’s the breeding… LOLOL

      • Avadon

        This is a disadvantageous mutation that would be detrimental in the wild. Having an incomplete coat makes you vulnerable to rashes, sunburn, and parasites. They should be sold to owners neutered so we are not allowing pet buyers to proliferate mutations of this sort. It would be like humans breeding people with mental disabilities because we thought it was funny, silly, or novel. Once you put it in perspective it really isn’t right. The least they can do is sell them neutered!

        • Pietoro

          All pet cats should be indoor-only anyway; nobody should be letting their cats roam around outside regardless. Cats do tons of damage to native species, and can get eaten by coyotes and such if you let them roam. If a mutation doesn’t affect their quality of life who cares what it looks like?

          • Avadon

            It doesn’t seem like much of a life for a cat to never get to visit outside. Seems rather unhealthy psychologically for this type of animal. But to say “who cares what it looks like” seems like a lack of empathy for what the cat has to go through. So if we don’t let it outside should we just do any sort of irresponsible breeding because we like the look. What about a cat with six legs or one with three eyes. I really think you have to consider an animals well being and fitness for survival. It’s disingenuous to say otherwise.

          • Evgeny Shamo

            So what exactly a cat with third eye will have to come though? Is he going to be bullied in school? Oh, I get it – it would be hard for him to get a job with looks like this! Wait, no. It’s probably the family. Yeah. The parents of his partner will be not happy, that is for sure. And his kids might be ashamed of his looks!

          • Avadon

            Try learning English before you attempt the snarky reply. You might think it’s fine to breed whatever the hell you want, but most people understand something called ethics and those people tend to know something about animal husbandry as well. Two things you clearly know nothing of.

          • Evgeny Shamo

            Most people have their ethics misplaced with wishful thinking. If a cat can “suffer” because of its looks, why is it ok to neuter cats? You either believe these animals have self-reflecting capabilities, or you don’t. And yeah, my English probably sucks – I am mostly here to practice, you see.

          • WingedWolfPsion

            It’s pretty clear by now that you don’t, either, lol. You keep throwing the word ‘ethics’ around, but what you’re advocating has 0 to do with ethics.

          • Ziggy

            My cats are indoor only but I hate it. I really wish they could go out as all my cats in the past have, but this area is just too dodgy. But when we move, they sure as hell will go outside, its a much better quality of life for most cats. I wouldn’t want to be locked indoors for my entire life….

          • Basia Nova

            And, are your indoor cats de-clawed, too? Ah…now that opens up another can of worms…

          • Ziggy

            Absolutely not! Declawing is illegal in my country, thank god! Its barbaric and I campaign against it. I hate that my cats have to be indoor only, my previous cats for 20 years were always free roaming and all lived to grand ages. Unfortunately, when we moved house, the area was not as nice, and we lost two cats in the same day to anti-freeze poisoning, suspected to be deliberate. The police were involved but no-one was ever found. After that, I simply couldn’t risk letting my cats outside. I think you can appreciate that! When we move to a nicer, quieter area, my cats will have outside access once more.

            But Im sure you can see why after having lost 2 young cats in the same day through poisoning, less than a year after moving, Im not happy to allow my others outside!

          • WingedWolfPsion

            Build a cat run. :)

          • PaigeInTheWorld

            Okay now I have a cat, her name is Ash and she hates the outdoors. She’d rather stay inside, and she loves it inside by the way. She’s 16 years old now and still healthy. If you say these little babies should be neutered than what about actual hairless cats? These cats don’t have a defect and seem to be getting along just fine. I mean how do YOU know what the cat is going through? And if it has a good home it will survive just fine.

          • David Firnhaber

            IF it has a good home. Just dont breed them because maybe you are a good owner but ten more kittens means 5 more put to death because of bad owners.

          • WingedWolfPsion

            No, it doesn’t. There is no causation, there. You need to understand these numbers better, before you start in on things like this. You know what would cause more cats to wind up in shelters? Trapping more of them and putting them there.

          • WingedWolfPsion

            If the cat with six legs or three eyes is healthy and happy, who cares?
            If you want your cat to get outside time, build a proper cat run for it. There is nothing unhealthy psychologically about keeping a cat indoors, and it’s mentalities like that which lead to cats becoming such a horrible invasive species.

          • Rompus

            It’s going to be hard for my barn cats to keep the mice in check from my bedroom. Have you even considered how unhappy some cats are imprisoned inside? But I guess it doesn’t matter if they’re happy, so long as their paws don’t get dirt on them.

          • Ziggy

            Agreed. But then the sort of people obsessive about whining online usually don’t leave their houses either ever, so they don’t see why the cats wouldn’t want to be shut ins too!

          • pk

            So Ziggy you never leave your house?

            Cause your on here.

            That was ignorant, derogatory and unnecessary.

            And I AGREE with you. so imagine how the people you’re “debating” against take it.

          • Kim Wakelin-Brake

            A lot of barn cats are coyote dinner and eagle dinner… never mind the cars and the kids that like to torment them and pour gas on them and set them on fire and so much more.. I rescue Feral Cats and we have a TNR program persons such as yourself and others keep us busy and broke trying to save these animals with all the love and respect in our hearts and souls.. if you want your kitty outside build a cool cattery look them up they are awesome and for barn cats spay and neuter does not stop them from killing your mice/rats and make sure they get their appropriate shots and are fed other than mice/rats and that they have fresh water daily

          • pk

            I know the images and bad things that haunt you Kim. Seen it too. But some cats are just not happy indoors.

            HOWEVER they shouldn’t be outside when the owner isn’t home AND the owner should always keep an ear on them.

            Mine go out when I’m here and if I hear any fighting or possible danger I go check on them. And they stay in at night. And I live in the perfect area for them – not so much wildlife AND not so much people.

            Understand your concern, and think it needs to be addressed cat by cat, area by area.

          • WingedWolfPsion

            Worm them regularly, too – they’re bound to be full of parasites, which they will distribute in their droppings.

          • pk

            Rompus I think that you have the perfect situation for barn cats. I have 4 that I let out but I’m in a very safe area to do that.

            I think what most folks are talking about, regarding not letting them out, is the cats’ safety. But it all should be taken on a cat by cat basis.

            My cats are all used to being outdoors and would be miserable trapped inside. I have 1 that’s tiny and loves to go outside but I go out and hang with her so she is protected.

            So depends on the animal and the area they live in.

          • WingedWolfPsion

            Providing proper perches and exercise opportunities fixes that. Letting pets decimate wildlife is unethical. Some things are more important than your kitty’s craving to run outside and kill birds.

          • moeburn

            I think you meant to say all cats should be OUTDOOR-only. Nobody should be forcing their cats to be locked up indoors all day until they become fat and depressed. Indoor cats are one of the cruellest things our society has done to pets.

          • Abigail McDufford

            No, cats should be indoor only – cats are one of the most destructive species on native wildlife. They have wiped out numerous populations of birds, reptiles, amphibians and rodents. Domestic cats are essentially man-made and do not have a place in the wild. Even letting your cat outside for a few hours unattended is a bad idea, as studies have found most cats (even well-fed) will kill given the first chance.

            Besides the wildlife factor, letting your cat outside is bad for your cat. Disease and risk of death (cars, torturous humans, dogs, etc) are very high. Nothing about keeping cats inside is inherently cruel. Bored cats are the result of boring owners, not simply living indoors. I have 3 indoor cats and they are happier than any of the outdoor cats I’ve had or observed in the past.

            I urge everyone to do more research on the harm cats do to our native species all over the world. It is staggering.

            The cats in question have no health issues, and considering they are a domestic species who should never have to survive on their own, having less fur isn’t an issue.

          • pk

            No, man is responsible for all of that. The cat is just doing what a creature does.

            Man domesticated them and now doesn’t want to take the responsibility for the mess created so just throws them out the door.

            A cat shouldn’t suffer because it’s a hunter that’s been stuffed into a toy box.

          • Jeremy Hodder

            that’s the most ignorant comment i have ever read..i could say humans aren’t meant to be indoors only so everyone let your babies roam free. we domesticated cats hence we have to be responsible for them, you know what responsibility is? i am guessing not..

          • Ziggy

            You know what we domesticated them for? Vermin control. They were never domesticated just to sit and look pretty on the sofa. And now we’re bitching about them killing things, which WE domesticated them to do, and saying they’ll be fine locked indoors forever. Thousands of years of cats being free roaming and encouraged to go and hunt won’t go away in 50 years to suit our modern whims.

          • Starky

            Actually, many *were* domesticated for appearance purposes all throughout history, not just vermin control.

          • lchopalong

            Our modern whims being wanting to avoid the destruction of natural wildlife?

          • pk

            omg – “wildlife” is just that – wildlife. If the cat don’t get em the owl will.

            Seriously people have to stop anthropomorphizing.

          • WingedWolfPsion

            The owl is a native animal. The cat is not. I think you need to do some research into the impacts of invasive species.

          • WingedWolfPsion

            Well, responsible breeders will produce cats that are increasingly happy indoors, and have a lower prey drive. That’s what breeders are for.

          • pk

            To all who think cats are happy happy happy indoors – turn all your electronics off and do nothing that will stimulate you for a month.

            Enjoying that? I thought not.

            IF a cat(s) is indoor only it should be a multi-cat household (at least two that GET ALONG) AND you better be playing crazy exhausting games with the cats 3 times a day for at least 30 minutes. AND the cats should have access to all the windows – padded shelf under every window for them to watch the world. Windows open (screened and secure) as many seasons as possible so they have the fresh scented wild air.

            IF you want to do that than fine.

            IF you don’t have a safe place for them to go outdoors, keep them in. Do all of the above.

          • WingedWolfPsion

            Or, just install some high shelves, a cat tree, and a cat wheel. They also make motorized toys. It’s not complicated to keep a cat happy indoors.

          • David Firnhaber

            I am having too much fun with this forum

          • PaigeInTheWorld

            My cat is an indoor cat. She has been for 16 years, I try to let her outside but she hates it. Even so, she isn’t fat or depressed. It’s not cruel if your cat doesn’t like it.

          • pk

            Absolutely. If the cat is already indoor only and afraid of the outdoors just keep as an indoor. Sounds like your doing the right thing.

          • WingedWolfPsion

            People who allow their cats to roam loose shouldn’t be allowed to own cats. They kill other animals and spread disease. It is, thankfully, increasingly being banned.

          • Ziggy

            lmao

        • Evgeny Shamo

          Cats are not people. I don’t think they have insecurities about their looks, do they?

          • moeburn

            It’s more of a function thing. These cats will be cold, prone to rashes, prone to sunburn, prone to bites from small insects, easily scratched by sharp plants and objects…

            It’s like bulldogs. Sure, they’re ugly, and sure, the dogs don’t really have vanity, they don’t care how they look. But they like to breathe. And bulldogs aren’t very good at breathing.

          • Austin

            no, it’s really nothing like bulldogs. bulldogs have major respiratory health issues because of their breed, these cats have no health problems related to their breed. so breeding bulldogs IS unethical, breeding these is not. did any of you ‘eradicators’ actually read the article?

          • Evgeny Shamo

            So do you propose we neuter all the bulldogs then? There are people who like them because of their looks, you know. They will not buy them otherwise and the breed would dissapear on its on in a while.

          • WingedWolfPsion

            Bulldogs should be bred to have smaller heads and longer noses, until they reach a state where the respiratory issues and caesarian sections are no longer needed. People will be just as happy with them, when their looks are not quite as extreme… as they USED to be.

          • WingedWolfPsion

            These cats will not be outside in the sun, or in uncontrolled temperatures. They will not be around biting insects, or sharp plants, and won’t be scratched by objects anymore often than we are.
            These are $1000 cats. No one tosses a $1000 cat out the door to run around loose.

        • Ziggy

          Something not being able to survive in the wild is irrelevent, because they’re not wild animals. If we only kept pets based on how well they’d survive in the wild, we would have about 1% of the domesticated animals we have today. Domestication shapes animals specifically NOT to live in the wild. How would a chihuahua or corgi survive in the wild? It wouldn’t. Probably should neuter all of them and eradicate everything except wolves, right?!

        • Austin

          no, it wouldn’t really be like that at all. people with mental disabilities have more mental and physical health problems than people without, so intentionally breeding such people is unethical. these cats do not have health problems related to their mutation (which you would know if you had read the article),so there is no comparison between the two. and surviving in the wild is completely irrelevant, most domesticated animals would become extinct very quickly if humans were to suddenly disappear. so breeding most dogs or anything other than wild animals is also unethical by your ridiculous standards

      • Mike de Houthakker

        Right, maybe take a look at this instead of thinking about a big fat
        wallet, containing money gathered by breeding animals when you haven’t
        have got the slightest idea what you’re actually doing.
        . http://dogbehaviorscience.wordpress.com/2012/09/29/100-years-of-breed-improvement/

      • Avadon

        I guess you lack reading comprehension. It is a defect. It is a congenital disorder. The mutation is disadvantageous to the cat, making it susceptible to skin rashes, sun burn, parasites, rashes, etc. There’s a damn good reason why cats evolved with hair. And now we’re supposed to accept a disadvantageous mutation simply due to your human whim. That may be the very definition of unethical.

        All mutations are natural, even down syndrome and autism are natural mutations. Should we breed for those because someone thinks they’re cute and funny. Stop being so unbelievably idiotic!

      • Bhig Bhad Wolf

        Who is the ignorant one here? Most breeds of EVERYTHING were developed for FUNCTION and genetic stability….not to deform them into oblivion and make them genetically unfit. Creating these “designer” breeds who are sick, inbred, genetically unsound and have various physical issues is NEW… and it’s RETARDED. As is the sick humans who support such NONSENSE.

      • LanceJZ

        That is true, however mimi has a point that you seem to have overlooked.
        There is so much inbreeding going on, more in dogs, just because of how that animal looks.

      • o7o7o7o

        You’re forgetting a key fact: cats were never domesticated by humans. They “domesticated” themselves roughly 10,000yrs ago and are the ONLY “domestic” animal that can return to feral…….

      • Carl O Elwell

        May you live forever.

      • http://www.movies-suck.com/ Wastrel Way

        I read down through all the ignorant statements about genetics, indoor and outdoor cats, etc. until I couldn’t stand it any more. No one one mentioned that this is unquestionably the ugliest breed of cat ever.

    • Selena Mcintyre

      You didn’t read the whole article did you? And they are perfectly capable of living around our home (ive seen 1 or2)we have woods all around us. They are sturdy from what I know

      • mimi boothby

        yes, i read the entire article. I still say it’s a mistake to breed them.

        • Austin

          why? because they have a “defective hair follicle gene”? apparently they survive in the wild just fine. and as the article made clear they aren’t suffering from any health problems. just because you don’t like their appearance it doesn’t mean they are “defective” cats.

          • RadRadRudy

            These cats were never in the “wild”. They were a fluke from a breeding incident and were raised protected in a home.

          • Austin

            that’s not what I was saying. read Selena’s comment, I was referring to the cats she has seen around her home, who have made it just fine in a forested area, which obviously means they can survive in the wild. doesn’t matter if they were “a fluke from a breeding incident”, lots of breeds are and they survive in the wild just fine.

          • Avadon

            Okay being outside in your backyard for a few hours isn’t existing in the wild. These cats would have tremendous difficult existing in the wild. Hair on animals stops sunburns, rashes, parasites and a host of diseases that can attack the skin. It also provides necessary insulation. There are many reasons why hair on cats is necessary. These cats would do very poorly if left out in the wild. Tics would be all over cats like this. Even short haired dogs like weinmerhauners and dobermans have issues due to their thin coats, this is just asking for trouble. It’s just barely a step up from a hairless cat.

          • Austin

            I’m going off of what people have seen and heard. Not sure where you are getting this two hours thing, nobody said that, the way Selena worded her comment I got that they weren’t her cats and they are basically living outdoor in a forest. If these cats are able to survive outdoors then I see no problem with breeding them, people with cat allergies could use breeds like this as an alternative to completely hairless cats

          • WingedWolfPsion

            Hairless cats don’t help with allergies, because it’s the proteins in the animal’s skin that people are allergic to – not their hair.

          • ericacrochets

            Good thing they are not wild animals. Cats are DOMESTICATED animals. They evolved with humans.

      • moeburn

        Every pet breed was a natural mutation. Bulldogs were once a natural mutation. People saw a dog that struggled to see and breathe, and thought “Aww doesn’t that look cute!” And now these suffering animals are inbred every year.

        • mimi boothby

          precisely. And we need to do this again because?

          • Ziggy

            Point out where in the article the cats are said to have any health issues? I can’t see it…….

          • Basia Nova

            So you believe everything you read on the Internet? This article is to partially advertise these cats. The blog author got her info/source from a page that was advertising these cats. And those breeders want to profit from this breed. Ever think that they might not list all the characteristics and deficiencies of said breed?

          • Jason Smith

            Well then until you provide a link that proves otherwise, aren’t you just assuming?

          • Basia Nova

            See Avadon’s post above. You sound naive.

          • Avadon

            Agreed! There can be many significant problems with purebred cats, the bulk of which you can’t find out from the very superficial tests the author and breeder has done. That’s because they’re very expensive and difficult to discern until generations of cats have been in existence. So to claim that “there are no health issues” is idiotic. What they’re saying is there are no known health issues, and since they are still kittens or sub adults, that doesn’t mean a whole hell of a lot.

            And of course because they are trying to sell this breeds popularity they aren’t going to tell you that a mutation like this may bring along with it other health risks which they might not discover until down the road. There’s no history on these cats. So if you’re the first to have one you’re exploring new territory. If they have eye, teeth, kidney, skin, or joint problems, I guess they’ll figure out then.

          • WingedWolfPsion

            These ARE NOT purebred cats. They are mixed breed cats with a genetic mutation. HUGE DIFFERENCE. This is a brand new breed. It hasn’t been selectively bred for long enough for any issues to be bred into it.

          • WingedWolfPsion

            And you believe they have health problems that aren’t being disclosed, because?

        • WingedWolfPsion

          No. That is not how it happened. Dogs with short muzzles were bred together, to produce increasingly short muzzles. The extremism of modern bulldogs is the result of modern veterinary advances – these animals could never have survived prior to good surgical interventions. They cannot even give birth on their own. Bulldogs are NOT the result of a mutation. They are the result of selective breeding.

    • Evgeny Shamo

      Aw, c’mon. Some people just like weird stuff. Take chineese crested dog for example – it’s basically the same thing, only perfected. They will polish the appearance yet, it might actually work out quite nicely.

      • Basia Nova

        Uh, untenable argument here. From my understanding, Chinese Cresteds have been around for hundreds and hundreds of years. Bred in China to guard palaces and what not. Those that are concerned for unnecessary breeding practices have a valid point.

        • Evgeny Shamo

          Why does it matter? They are still ugly and rather pitiful if you ask me.Just the same, some people might consider these cats funny or cute, so they will invest time and resourses in perfecting the breed – why is that “undesirable”? You can’t just tell people what kind of cat they can or can not have.

          • Basia Nova

            First of all, I never said “undesirable,” I said “untenable” …you didn’t understand the word, so you missed my point. Untenable means a point of view that is not able to be maintained in an argument (i.e.; by means of bringing up a Chinese Crested dog to make her point. Invalid in other words…she could have used a better example and then made a more valid point..get it?).
            And, I guess with your type of thinking and the majority of others on the forum here, it doesn’t matter if one isn’t a critical thinker and just accepts any fad or action because it’s cool or the “new thing.” There are repercussions to everything we do in Society. I have a Chinese Crested dog and it is not ugly…you see?…it’s all pertaining to taste and I don’t hold your opinion against you. Nor am I telling people what they should do. But yes, people should think about their choices and how that may adversely affect the Animal Kingdom, etc.

          • Evgeny Shamo

            Chinese Crested basically has the same amount of fur these cats have. Why it is ok to breed the former but not the later? Simply saying “chinese crested breed was created earlier” doesn’t explain this.

          • Basia Nova

            Ugh…Never mind Evgeny….
            *smh*

          • Evgeny Shamo

            Look, If you can’t explain your point – it’s presentation issue. We are not talking about astrophysics here, the subject is not THAT complicated – so pretending we are missing the point does not give you credit. The only difference I see between these breeds is the date of recognition, so correct me if I’m wrong. If you don’t care to explain – thats fine, too. I am only curious for as long as interest in discussion is mutual.

          • Basia Nova

            Point: Your comparison to this new breed of cats and Chinese Cresteds was not strong = untenable. Why? Because they are two different examples with two different backgrounds. Do the research, Evgany, and then get back to me.

            And…from my quote. Here is my message:

            “And, I guess with your type of thinking and the majority of others on the forum here, it doesn’t matter if one isn’t a critical thinker and just accepts any fad or action because it’s cool or the “new thing.” There are repercussions to everything we do in Society.” Even how and why we breed our animals.

          • Basia Nova

            And…this is from Avedon, who posted earlier. He sums it up beautifully for me.
            “Selective breeding of bad or unhealthy mutations is truly unethical. As I said before, It would be like parents selecting genes to make children with mental disorders because they thought it was cute. Once you apply some rationality and ethics to it, it really looks like an ugly and rather narcissistic act.”

          • Evgeny Shamo

            Animals are not children, isn’t that obvious? Animals were always used as tools – that’s the sole reason for domestication. In urban enviroment today people rarely ned help with herding or hunting, so we use our pets differently – mainly for stress relief. Thus, being cute became pet’s major role. Therefore it’s ok to create funny or weird animals for as long as they serve their purpose – that is, to make humans feel good. These cats don’t make me feel good, but it looks like there are some people who like them, so why not?

            Just because some people misuse their empathy?

          • WingedWolfPsion

            These cats do not have mental disorders, nor do they have any physical disorders. They just LOOK different. That is all. It’s purely a cosmetic change. Stupid comparison.

          • Evgeny Shamo

            You can’t just say “do research” in discussion like that because you’re not my proffesor and I am not your student, therefore, I have no idea in what particular field should I do my supposed researching. if you have strong argument, just use it, for the Christ sake. Say it plainly: Chinese Crested has x while this new cat breed lacks it, and therefore… As of now we are just playing guessing game, because you avoid stating clearly ‘which’ difference between the two breeds is crucial to your point.

          • Inspector Spacetime

            I had no problem understanding Basia’s point. More likely it’s a deliberate misunderstanding issue, or a case of terminal tunnel vision.

        • Ziggy

          So if a mutation popped up thousands of years ago and was bred from, thats fine. If it pops up today, its wrong? If this breed had been about for thousands of years, I suspect you wouldn’t be whining…..

          • Basia Nova

            I’m not whining. I agree with Mimi on the premise that we can put our energies on the cats that need homes, in kill shelters, etc instead of making designer breeds. Did you read all of her commentary? You ought to before you make assumptions on where I am coming from.

          • WingedWolfPsion

            The problem is, these are two unrelated issues. Designer breeds don’t put cats into shelters. There would be too many cats in shelters if every person stopped deliberately breeding them, because cats do a fine job of breeding themselves.

          • Basia Nova

            Would you, please, go away. No one is debating this anymore. It’s been over a week. Get a life.

          • WingedWolfPsion

            No. Feel free to turn off notifications. :) That option is always open to you. I will not indulge your lazy, however.

          • Basia Nova

            No, you stop fucking replying to me, moron. Have some decency and common sense.

          • WingedWolfPsion

            Common sense and decency would have been to not respond to my post, if you were not interested in carrying on a discussion. In fact, doing otherwise is moronic. Replying further to demand that I not reply to you is so absurd that, I simply can’t bring myself to obey. The ball is in your court. You can continue to be a troll, or you can walk away.

          • Basia Nova

            You’re the moronic Troll. This conversation/thread stopped long ago for me and others. I’m giving you a heads up to understand “forum etiquette.” No one is playing any more get? Get over it.

          • WingedWolfPsion

            I’ll just go ahead and flag Basia’s post, since that seems to be the indicated response to hearing from someone annoying. :) Of course, I went through this thread again because I received a response on something earlier today. So, obviously, some folks are still talking.

    • mustard23

      Mimi all domesticated animals are a result of selective breading. With your logic we should neuter all Labradors because the vikings breed dogs with the qualities of liking water and the willingness to jump in it at the sound of a splash because they bread them to be on boats and jump in after someone fell overboard so they could use the dog as a life preserver. .

      • Avadon

        Except for the fact that the Labradors adaptations were beneficial to the species survival in both domestication and in the wild elements. Not at all true with this cat. The only benefit is “humans like it.”

        • Basia Nova

          Well said.

        • Evgeny Shamo

          Labrador can’t hold a candle to a wolf. It is basically a wolf who is stuck in early adolescense because the human wanted so – so it is playful, smart and not agressive. You mix your on understanding of aesthetics to the judgement, so it looks like the things you find beautiful are simultaneously the most beneficial to the animal – but it is often not the case.

          • Avadon

            Yes that is exactly my point. Trying to believe that aesthetics are the only consideration here is fallacious. There are a lot of unknowns as to whether animals like this will suffer any long term health risks. Not to mention a huge ethical dilemma about breeding mutations that prove disadvantageous to all things except for human vanity.

          • WingedWolfPsion

            What dilemma is that? Be specific.

        • Ziggy

          Which is a HUGELY important factor when talking about a domestic species that is bred to live alongside humans. If humans don’t like them, they die out. Being appealing to humans is a pretty favourable state to be in if you want your brand of domestic animal to thrive and succeed, which is exactly what nature wants its animals to do…..I ask again, if the cats are healthy, why does it matter? I don’t think anyone could support them if they had health issues or their quality of life was affected, but that does not seem to be the case, so whats the problem?

          • Avadon

            So your idea of evolution should just be that if it’s favorable to one species why not allow it. That’s a great argument for parasites.

            The problem is it’s unethical to breed any species (humans included) with congenital disorders (hairlessness in an animal that needs hair to survive is a disorder!!)

            It’s more than short sighted to breed an animal only due to the vanity of looks and then make all sorts of excuses and allowances for why it should exist and continue to be bred because “it’s not hurting anyone.” I guess you don’t ever consider an animals welfare in the mix.

            What’s the harm with breeding reptiles with two heads, humans with genetic disorders, etc. Or in your logic if they are kept lovingly as pets then who gives a crap if they suffer, if they long term health problems that weren’t immediately forseeable, or they can’t survive well outside of the house. Which is exactly the problem with this animal. Breeding for hairlessness in an animal that requires hair just because it suits you is fucking selfish as hell!

            Congratulations your’re narcissistic.

          • Ziggy

            LMAO. Im narcissistic? Howso? I don’t have one of these cats, all mine are rescues, as are all my animals except my dog. I have never purchased a hairless animal in my life, so how exactly am I the problem here? I think you need to channel your rage into something more productive. Maybe open an animal rescue centre rather than sitting here bitching at someone who HAS ;)

          • WingedWolfPsion

            Evolution: This word clearly does not mean what you think it means.
            There is no argument for or against parasites. They evolved. They exist. We don’t deliberately breed them, because we don’t like them.
            You cannot breed reptiles with two heads – that is a developmental defect, not a genetic mutation.
            Cats live indoors, in a climate-controlled environment, and do not require hair.

        • ericacrochets

          Laughing at the thought of a colony of Labradors in the wild.

          • Avadon

            Laughing at the thought of you strawman-ing my argument.

        • WingedWolfPsion

          Labradors don’t survive in the wild.

    • Pietoro

      You know what other animal has a defective hair follicle gene? Humans. There is actually no benefit for us to have lost our protective fur — if anything it was technically ‘detrimental’. But somehow, we made it through the stone age long enough to invent sweaters and indoor heating.

      So before anyone ignorantly starts freaking out over ‘hairless mutant animals’ and how awful it is to let them live, they need to take a look in the mirror and get some perspective.

      • Avadon

        And when cats can build homes and sew clothes for themselves you might actually have a valid point.

        • Pietoro

          Cats live in OUR homes and people DO make sweaters for their hairless cats. So what’s your problem?

          • Avadon

            Really?

            Humans lost our fur/hair due to the process of natural selection. Not because some other species bred it out of us. Selective breeding of bad or unhealthy mutations is truly unethical. As I said before, It would be like parents selecting genes to make children with mental disorders because they thought it was cute. Once you apply some rationality and ethics to it, it really looks like an ugly and rather narcissistic act.

          • Evgeny Shamo

            It’s not unethical. Thousands of pets exist solely because people find them amusing – so it’s not a “bad” mutation – it serves the survival. You can’t just regulate what other people want in their pets. I mean, look at chihuahua. Is that even a dog? I used to have pet rats that had more bite in them than this. Still, i see no reason to attack the breed. Even the ugliest pet fares much better than he most pretty cat in the world would do without human aid.

          • Inspector Spacetime

            I’m in agreement that any dog ‘breed’ that can’t theoretically survive outside human intervention should not be done, or should not have been done. Same with cats. Those that are not food animals for us, or don’t perform a theoretical beneficial function that aids our survival that can’t be achieved with any other similar animal – there’s no ethical argument around going out of our way to propagate them. Not when there’s another animal with similar qualities already in front of us.

          • Evgeny Shamo

            Why just… Why do you think we need a reason besides ‘fun’ to propagate animals?

          • WingedWolfPsion

            Because diversity has no value, right?

          • Basia Nova

            Well said! Bravo!

          • WingedWolfPsion

            Actually, it would be like parents selecting genes to make children who are much more intelligent than their peers. Their kids would have an advantage… just like these cats. These cats are more desirable than ordinary strays, because of their unique looks. So, they have an advantage.

      • Inspector Spacetime

        We developed the characteristic of less hair because it was advantageous to get sick less often with parasites and vermin, among other reasons. It’s not defective. It served an advantage. This follicle deficiency in these cats is not a selective advantage.

        • WingedWolfPsion

          Of course it is. It increases the value of these animals to humans. For a domesticated animal, being more valuable to humans is the ONLY survival advantage that matters, AT ALL.

      • WingedWolfPsion

        Actually, humans lost their hair in order to expose their skin to air, and allow their sweat to cool them much more efficiently. You see, humans are persistence hunters that follow their prey for very long distances in the blazing heat. They rely on their exceptional ability to cool their own body to run their prey to the ground, until it dies of heat exhaustion.

    • Avadon

      I agree that animals shouldn’t be bred for novel sake. These animals don’t have any function other than looking cute. They are not bred to survive the Alaskan Winter or to be more resistant to genetic disorders. In fact, quite the opposite.

      The least these breeders can do is send off these animals neutered and spayed so that the genetics don’t spread.

      • Austin

        you do realize that by the logic of “we shouldn’t breed animals that can’t survive in the wild” that breeding virtually all domesticated animals is unethical right? if humans disappeared virtually all dogs and cats would become extinct. domesticated animals are not bred to survive in the wild, that’s why they are called DOMESTICATED. it doesn’t matter if a domesticated animal can’t survive in the wild, so long as the breed doesn’t have health problems like the bulldog there’s nothing unethical about breeding it.

        • Avadon

          I believe there is enough breeding that’s been done in the name of human benefit, we certainty don’t need to add more wrong, simply because there is a lot of wrong in the world. And that seems to be your argument.

          //virtually all dogs and cats would become extinct.//

          Laughably untrue as cats and dogs survive in places outside of any human aid. I guess you never learned the term “feral.”

          The issue here is that these cats are being bred with a mutation that makes their survival in the wild not only impossible, but simple existence outside disadvantageous and troublesome. This will make them susceptible to skin burns, parasites, rashes, etc. So there clearly is a health issue here and if your advocating an animal like a cat live completely inside the house, that’s also not a terribly healthy condition for cats.

          • Austin

            no, that inarticulate mess is not my argument, that would be a straw man. my argument is that your position is applicable to almost all domesticated animals, so, if you are going to be consistent you have to say that breeding just about any domesticated animals is unethical. and that is something most rational people would find extremely ridiculous and highly debatable. and since I don’t think you’ve made a good case for that controversial claim I think your argument fails.

            yes, if humans were to disappear virtually all domesticated animals would go extinct sooner or later. I am indeed familiar with feral cats and dogs. if humans went extinct they would quickly run out of food to eat, and they would have to go out into nature and live in the wild. they have been breed in a controlled environment for too long to successfully compete in the wild with wolves and coyotes in the long term, so yes, they would eventually go extinct, probably pretty quickly if you think about it at all.

            I don’t think that’s the issue at all, you see the issue is that I and others DISAGREE with your claim that these cats obviously have a lower quality of life than cats without the mutation. point out to me where in this article or elsewhere it says that having a mutation like this significantly reduces the quality of a cat’s life. I’m not seeing that anywhere, and it’s hardly given. people have posted here that they have seen cats like these living outside, in a forested area, apparently just fine. even people with sphynx cats can let them go outside under supervision and these cats actually have some hair. so no, I hardly think it’s clear that these cats would be unable to go outside because of their mutation.and as many people have noted survival in the wild has absolutely no bearing on whether or not breeding an animal is ethical. a breed’s quality of life IN CAPTIVITY is what determines that

          • Avadon

            My position: breeding mutations that are disadvantageous and likely to create health problems is unethical.

            How you get from my argument that I have to be against all domesticated breeding is only some nonsense that you can figure out in your mind. I certainly can’t fathom that fallacious jump.

            There is no evidence to suggest that domesticated dogs and cats would go extinct. On the contrary, feral animals do just fine in the wild without any human intervention, eating non-human derived food sources. Heck even discovery had a show on what would happen if humans vanished and they showed the return of dogs and cats to the wild.

            Many Dogs and cats both have no problem returning to natural scavengers and predators. They’ve done this for millions of years and many breeds would have no problem doing it for millions more. Obviously some breeds like the cat in this article aren’t going to make it. That’s my point, don’t breed for mutations that are terribly unsuccessful in the wild. It’s similar why we don’t breed for albinism. Anyone with a sense of ethics would give pause here.

            Going outside I’m sure this cat can do. Going outside and not suffering health-risks from it, such as sunburn, parasite susceptibility, dermal diseases, etc. is not something I believe this animal is capable of. Since it’s brand new, they really don’t know any of the health risks yet. No ones ever owned one from birth to death. But one look at any hairless cat and we know from past experience that there are known issues.

            And please stop with the all CAPS words. It makes you look childish. Believe me, I can read with emphasis. I don’t need the help of my inferiors.

          • Austin

            I just explained why that is a logical consequence of your argument, but I’ll break it down for you since you are apparently confused: your argument that breeding these cats is unethical is just as applicable to virtually every domesticated animal in existence. we do not breed ANY animals to survive in the wild, all the traits we select for are undesirable in the wild. if they weren’t we wouldn’t have to select for them because they would occur naturally in wild animals. but they don’t because they put dogs at a disadvantage to wild animals like wolves and coyotes. so if you want to make the absurd argument that breeding animals for traits that will make it difficult for them to survive in the wild means it’s unethical to breed them, then your argument hardly stops with these cats, it can be applied to virtually all domesticated animals, so if you want to use that argument and not be inconsistent in its application you are also committed to the ridiculous claim that breeding any domesticated animals is immoral, which is so obviously stupid that your argument is obviously false.

            if our domesticated animals returned to the wild they would need to quickly adapt or they would go extinct because the traits we have bred them for do not suit them in the wild, they suit them only in surviving with humans.

            which brings me to my other point, that I will again repeat because you didn’t address it either. survival in the wild is completely and utterly irrelevant to the question of whether breeding an animal is ethical. they don’t need to survive in the wild, they need to survive with people because they are human companions. “anybody with a sense of ethics would give pause here” is not an argument, that’s you arbitrarily insisting your ethical appraisal of this situation is correct and any other interpretation is unethical. and I’m the one that sounds childish?

            again, even sphynx cats can go outside on occasion so long as one supervises them. and these cats are not hairless, they have enough hair that it seems to me they will be reasonable protected against sun and pests, certainly better protected than a hairless cat, and I’m not at all convinced that they would have a poor quality of life just because of this mutation. if we eventually find that that is the case I would agree with you, but that is hardly established yet.

            calling people you are debating your “inferiors” is actually way, way more childish and arrogant. using sparing caps to drill significant points into the head of someone who keeps ignoring them is not childish, it’s necessary. at least I am adhering to the minimal standards of respect in a debate and not stooping to the level of condescending and name-calling

          • WingedWolfPsion

            The problem is that you keep calling this mutation ‘disadvantageous’ – but it’s not. You keep saying ‘likely to create health problems,’ but that’s pure speculation supported by nothing. You’re using your own lies to bolster your argument.

          • WingedWolfPsion

            The few survivors of the feral cats and dogs that got by without humans, would evolve into a new breed/subspecies, and would no longer be domesticated animals. A good example of this is the Dingo. The dingo (and Carolina dog, and singing dog) are the only dog breeds that are actually suited to live in the wild.

      • WingedWolfPsion

        The entire point of pets is that they look cute. That’s their evolutionary advantage – looking cute, so we take care of them. There is NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT.

    • Presone

      You sound like a Nazi scientist trying to play god. You are the one who should be neutered!

      • Basia Nova

        STFU with your racist slurs. No need for that here.

        • Presone

          you are right, no need for that. i couldn’t help how i felt at the time. but i couldn’t find a way to fully express myself then…

          • Basia Nova

            At least your owning-up to it..so that’s good.

      • Inspector Spacetime

        It’s your bedtime, dear.

    • Lukas The-Zorin Toft Thapprakh

      I can see why you say this, But also I must ask you this.. How do you know it is Defective? How do you know they can not survive? You can not know, If you have not taken place in the research, And experiments that created this thing. I would reccomend reducing your comment to: “Too many normal cats are killed, In order to create new life.” Unless you have proof of your accusation. Ja? Not saying that you have no right to think what you want, Just remember not to speak words that not even you are fairly certain is true.

    • Avadon

      Also hairless cats are susceptible to urticaria pigmentosa and cutaneous mastocytosis. Not that many of the fans of designer pets here would give a sh*t.

      • WingedWolfPsion

        These are not hairless cats, and you need to be more specific. Which ones, and why?

    • Willem Lubbe

      Maybe you should be neutered…

    • Bren Sig

      That’s, that’s just horrific, really it is. I was going to rant, but likely it’d prove fruitless, and as such I’ll respect your right to have an opinion. My opinion of it is that it’s hypocritical as all hell, let alone so screwed up I don’t even want to touch it, but I respect that it’s your opinion and you are, sadly, allowed to voice the bile that you hold to be true.

    • Vanisia Covington

      I don’t think that people should be breeding cats or dogs either. I think that we should worry about all of the ones that have been left out to die and roam the streets first. if and I mean if there is ever a shortage in dogs and cats then and only then should a breeding plan start. people that breed animals to sell as pets and those that buy them are selfish people. God told us to protect the weak and needy and to live off of the land to keep us strong and healthy. not breed animals and let the population get out of control so that we have to put millions down each year because of our greediness and seflishness

      • mimi boothby

        well said. Thank you for joining the discussion

        • Vanisia Covington

          I love animals so much because they are so innocent. they like children are oblivious to human kinds failings. they don’t hate or judge. They don’t lie or kill for pleasure… sorry lol I tend to be long winded when it comes to the subject of fair treatment of animals, children and elderly people… =)

    • Ricky

      your a bitch. every creature deserves to have a chance at life. human beings are the most defected creatures to walk the earth. we breed psychopaths, rapists, and people like you that deem themselves the judgment of God. You and your closed mind are defected, go get spade and neuter your children to prevent the further defectiveness of your bloodline. thank you :)

    • Carl O Elwell

      Kill yourself.

    • Carl O Elwell

      (Just for the record mimi, I do NOT discriminate against autism, and good for you.)

  • Geoclac

    What is there production of allergens like, I wonder?

    • Pietoro

      The Russian Peterbald and Sphynx are two other breeds of cat that are fully hairless which I would think could be a better choice for people with cat allergies.

      • Evgeny Shamo

        it doesn’t work anyway. it’s not the hair itself but ca
        t’s saliva that induces allergy in humans (usually). So hair or no immune response still trigges.

    • WingedWolfPsion

      The same as any other cat, most likely.

  • MediocreFred

    I had a cat that looked like that.

    But she was desperately sick and I was trying to rehabilitate her.

  • Hooter Aaron

    I want 1 that is a cool ass cat!!

  • Emily

    They don’t have a defective gene and are healthy now. But how deep is the breeding pool going to be later?? Eventually you will be doing more harm than good. Read the article again and see how many have been born without crossing the two Lykoi cats. Its the same with all animals that humans breed. Enough with the designer animals. Enjoy the rare and leave it be , that’s what makes it beautiful.

    • Pietoro

      Purebred cat registries allow outcrossing to other types of cats to broaden the genepool for most cat breeds (unlike purebred dogs, where a dog becomes ineligible to be registered or shown if it is crossed).

      So as long as breeders are intelligent, they can avoid inbreeding problems and still keep their breed going.

      • mimi boothby

        unfortunately cats have become damaged by ignorant breeders breeding for things like “short nose” or “Long nose” or “Color” disregarding everything else. There are many breeds of cats which are just as messed up as the breeds of dogs… and starting out with just two individuals gives you a VERY tight gene pool.

        • Ziggy

          OUTCROSSING.

          Look it up.

        • Avadon

          You are right, and there’s no shortage of self-serving, idiotic, humans to defend it.

  • merrick04

    As much as I would love to have one of these, I have to agree with Mimi. If you have up to $2000 to pay for one of these novelties, just think how much good you could do for shelter cats doomed to die.
    And yes, I DO realize that these occurred naturally.

    • WingedWolfPsion

      Pets are not interchangeable. If I want a lykoi, that doesn’t mean I’ll settle for a mixed-breed if I can’t get one.

  • kim bunchalastnames

    ya, because the world needs a new breed of housecats to wind up in shelters and humane societies. how many are put down every year? let’s add to that number.

    • Pietoro

      The majority of cats killed in shelters are wild-born feral cats. There is something like 80 million feral cats in the U.S., or one feral cat for each owned cat. They are unfixed and breed freely, and are unable to be rehomed if brought to a shelter, and therefore they are generally killed on intake.

      If you go to websites for organizations like Alley Cat Allies, who are feral cat advocates, you can see the data they have on cat populations and learn how promoting S/N of feral cat colonies is one way to try and reduce the number of homeless cats that are killed each year. But yeah, the percent of cats in this country that are purebred is incredibly small compared to the huge number of unfixed, breeding ferals, and purebred cats are not the ones roaming around and getting sent to the pound in any significant number, believe me. So getting mad at purebred cat breeders doesn’t do any good to address the actual problem there.

      • Inspector Spacetime

        You make it sound that ‘purebred’ cats mean anything more than ‘regular’ cat tied to an aesthetic subjective preference one might be willing to dump thousands into to indulge.

        • WingedWolfPsion

          Purebred cats are selected for appearance, and for specific behavioral and temperament traits. Not just appearance alone.

    • Ziggy

      Oh god *rolls eyes* You think someone who pays $2000 for a cat is going to let that cat end up in a shelter? Anyone spending that amount of cash is going to be pretty serious about having that animal. Can’t there ever be even one animal discussion without rescue nazis spouting their usual ignorant, black and white rescue agenda?

      • Tim nosirrag

        Cats sneak out all the time on people. My cat lives outside on his own for months on end sometimes. All it will take is one careless owner of these to let one out and the damn thing breeds all over the place and you got one hell of a mess!!! More so folks who spend all of that money on a pet are just doing it for the look and the ooh and awe factor they will receive from friends, etc. And most are actually the worst pet owners there are.. Kinda like a teen buying a pitbull because its cute. Next thing you know its running the neighborhood and then is in a shelter somewhere because the novelty wore off.

        • Tim nosirrag

          Oh and Ziggy, you are a troll!!!!! lol

      • Inspector Spacetime

        Too bad they weren’t serious enough to look at an animal already here that’s in need. They’re vanity projects. You’re going to have a hard time making the case that there’s a utilitarian value-add when comparing ‘designer’ cats to the subset of domesticated, friendly cats in shelters. But sure, dismiss however you think best.

        • Ziggy

          Dismiss? You know I run a rescue, right? I fully support rescue. I also realise the world isn’t fucking black and white, and that a rescue animal doesn’t suit everyone’s needs in every situation and every country. Shades of grey do exist, shock horror, and your way isn’t the only ethical way.

          • Avadon

            You are really a sad bitch. If you do in fact work at a rescue you need to get out of the business. You do not have the right ethics nor intelligence to be in charge of animals.

          • Ziggy

            People always resort to insults and attacks when they have lost an argument. I feel sorry for you.

          • WingedWolfPsion

            Yes, Avadon – no
            one but people who think just like you should be allowed to rescue animals. *laughs.
            I’m sure the animals appreciate your attitude. You’ll rescue twice as many, to make up for her getting out, right?

      • Avadon

        Only $2000.00 right now because of scarcity. When it drops to $20
        and even the pet store can’t sell them, they’ll be in the kill shelters
        right along with all other cats. Trends only last a short time and this
        is what they’re doing, treating animal life as a trend to be enjoyed,
        then thrown out when the whim and novelty fades.

        • WingedWolfPsion

          Right… just like the purebred… what breed was it that happened to? I can’t think of a purebred cat breed that happened to… Please, fill us in.

      • The Denver Diamond

        Ther ARE ass holes who by baby animals and when they grow upo they get rid of them and get a new baby.

        • WingedWolfPsion

          Not very many who spend $1000 for the privilege.

    • The Denver Diamond

      Yeah lets stop adding to that number by stopping the kidnapping of feral cats and stop taking them to shelters where they dont belong.

      • kim bunchalastnames

        right. because there’s no irresponsible pet owners in this country who don’t bother to neuter their cats and allow them to run around outside and produce litter after litter which they then advertise in the paper as “free to good home!” it’s all feral.

        • kim bunchalastnames

          and p.s. those feral cats — they’re just spontaneous beings. they don’t come from abandoned pets or litters who are taken out to the woods and “set free.”

          • WingedWolfPsion

            A lot of them come from people who let their pets roam outside without supervision, and then the pet gets lost and goes feral to survive.

          • kim bunchalastnames

            i know. that’s my point.

        • The Denver Diamond

          The vast majority of issue with the humane society is human arrogance that says that cats must l.ive in a human home or else be caged. We need to stop doing that. For fucks sake my cat ended up being killed by the humane society because people kept taking her there till i just could not afford to get her in time because the “adoption fees” were kicking my ass.

          Just leave the cats alone they dont need to go to a shelter. I am a huge fan of the catch fix and release program for feral cats but not for taking a free animal and imprisoning them because it is an inconvenience to our mighty human ways.

          If we stop taking feral cats to shelters then the shelters wont be as over crowded. Just saying.

          • kim bunchalastnames

            i get what you’re saying, but don’t agree. the average lifespan of a feral cat, if it survives kittenhood, is about two years. weather — like the situation currently on the east coast in the midwest and predators, like coyotes, decimate feral cat populations. so maybe no one’s personally attached to feral cats like we are to our own pets, but does that mean it’s okay for them to suffer? not as far as i’m concerned. especially since feral cat populations are CAUSED by careless and/or negligent pet owners.

          • The Denver Diamond

            Better to die young and free than to die old and a slave.

          • kim bunchalastnames

            you used the word “arrogance.” what’s more arrogant than having an opinion and projecting it upon a voiceless animal? i can do that, too. better to die a cherished pet, beloved and cared for, than to live a life of hunger, desperation, and fear only to die in a matter of months by freezing to death or torn to pieces by predators. *shrugs* fwiw, i agree that catch-neuter-and-release are the best things we can do right now for these animals — if they don’t have the dispositions to be placed in homes. but the real issue is, and will continue to be, irresponsible pet owners who don’t bother to neuter their pets, don’t keep domestic cats indoors, and/or those who abandon their cats or the litters their cats produce in the wild.

          • WingedWolfPsion

            Brilliant…. And if they don’t agree with you? It doesn’t matter, because you’ll force your humanocentric choice on them, right?

          • The Denver Diamond

            No not right. I give THEM the choice.

          • WingedWolfPsion

            Really? You believe your cats UNDERSTANDS the risks? That cats are capable of comprehending the dangers? That your cat that was euthanized CHOSE to be killed, rather than live indoors? No, that was YOUR choice, not his. He’s just a cat, and he was acting on instinct and the basic desires of the moment. You’re the human; it’s your job to be the intelligent one, and make decisions for your pet’s welfare, because YOU know the risks. You stubbornly failed to do what was right, despite your neighbors clearly being aggravated by your animals wandering loose (else why trap them?), and who paid the price for it, in the end? The innocent cat, who deserved better. The cat, who would have been perfectly happy indoors, if his needs had been properly met.

          • The Denver Diamond

            Slavery is what is right?????

          • WingedWolfPsion

            I honestly hope you never have children, with that attitude. I would fear for their safety.

          • The Denver Diamond

            Human children and adult cats are not the same :)

          • WingedWolfPsion

            It’s not about the suffering of feral cats, it’s about the damage they cause to other animals. Feral cats don’t suffer any more than any other wild animal does.

          • kim bunchalastnames

            i agree with your first sentence, but not your last. there’s a place in the ecology for other wild animals — as long as we don’t finish killing off wolves (but the coyotes are slipping into that glove, anyway). feral cats are artificially introduced. it’s harder for them to compete with existing predators, and just as hard for them to avoid predation by other, larger animals. they suffer as a direct result of being spawned by animals kept by people — they aren’t truly fit to be wild any more than housecats are truly fit to be tamed. they’re an anomaly. AND there are literally THOUSANDS of unwanted kittens euthanized daily; between 7,000 and 11,000, by last estimates. developing a new breed in light of these numbers seems arrogant at best and morally reprehensible, at the very least.

          • WingedWolfPsion

            The evidence suggests otherwise – cats do well in human-disturbed areas, without actual help from humans. Feral cat colonies grow – they don’t shrink. This is the definition of success for a wild animal – producing enough offspring that grow to reproductive age, to more than replace the current reproducing adults. That’s better than many wild animals manage. As an invasive species, this is what cats do – increase their numbers and increase their impact on the environment.

            The lives of this small number of pampered indoor pets will have 0 impact on that. It’s simply not part of the problem, and nothing related to it will impact the problem.

          • kim bunchalastnames

            don’t you think that the size of their populations depend greatly on 1. human intervention and 2. the fact that queens can begin churning out up to three litters a year from the time they’re five months old? it seems like a case of sheer numbers overwhelming the odds, at least in population size.

            i still believe that the ultimate issue IS related — not all the animals put down or overcrowding rescues and/or shelters are feral, and, if they are, it’s generally a result of human negligence, in the first place.

            regardless, thanks for the debate. it’s nice to exchange opinions in a internet forum without having the conversation devolve into personal attacks, and, also, to speak to someone who’s both well-informed and able to present their views so well. as a result, i’ll open my mind a little more and look into it further and, i hope, learn something new, and i thank you for the springboard.

          • WingedWolfPsion

            I think human intervention can have an impact when people feed strays, but even without it, they do well living off of human trash, rodents, and birds. (Raccoons, Norway rats, and gray squirrels are more examples of animals that do well in human company, but without any intent on the part of humans to necessarily help them).

            The fact that queens can have so many offspring is precisely why feral cats do so well. Just as with other very fecund wild animals, some of them are bound to make it to breeding age, and produce litters, before they die. Many species use this tactic (such as the aforementioned Norway rats, and house mice, cottontail rabbits, etc). This is also what I mean when I say that feral cats aren’t any worse off than other wild animals. The majority of offspring wild animals produce will not survive to breeding age. If the adults can replace themselves in the population, they’re thriving. If they can do better than that, then their population is expanding, and if they reach the carrying capacity of their environment, larger die-offs may occur. In a natural ecosystem, populations can fluctuate quite a bit, but they tend to stay within certain parameters.

            When we look at the ‘suffering’ of feral cats, it’s important to recognize that it is not more significant, special, or intense than that of any wild animal population. In fact, the ability of feral cat colonies to expand their population means they’re actually doing BETTER than the native predator populations they compete with, and that is precisely the problem.

            While it’s true that not all animals put down in shelters are feral, it’s also extremely true that not all feral cats are being put down… not even a fraction of them are. This uncontrolled wild breeding is where the bulk of the cat overpopulation issue is, and if efforts were moved to addressing it, the results would be far more significant than they would if every purebred breeder closed shop tomorrow.

            The truth is, people simply don’t WANT to. Feral cats can never be pets, once they grow past early kittenhood. They must be euthanized. People want to have their cake, and eat it to – they want there to be no unwanted cats, but they don’t want to kill feral cats. It’s simply impossible for them to achieve anything this way.

            With feral cat colonies continuing to expand, pointing the finger at people who breed a few special cats once a year seems like a smokescreen. It simply hides the real issue, so people don’t have to face it.

          • kim bunchalastnames

            i understand, and you’ve changed at least some of my mind. :) thank you.

          • WingedWolfPsion

            You have just outed yourself as the world’s most irresponsible pet owner. Letting your cat be killed because you couldn’t be responsible enough to keep it indoors. Ugh!

          • The Denver Diamond

            I couldnt afford to even keep myself indoors. She was all i had in my life, i kept her fed and slept with her for warmth. She was ll i had in the world.

          • The Denver Diamond

            Also when did it become human responsibility to keep them indoors when they might not want to be indoors?????

          • WingedWolfPsion

            When you become a PET OWNER, you take on the responsibility of meeting the needs of that animal, and providing for its welfare. You also become RESPONSIBLE FOR ITS ACTIONS. This is why the owners of stray animals must pay fines, and why the owner is prosecuted if their dog bites someone.

            That is the price of pet ownership. No one unwilling to accept it should EVER own a pet.

            In many places it is NOT legal to allow cats to roam outdoors. This is because doing puts the cats at risk, results in the destruction of wildlife, and can even spread harmful disease to humans (especially children, as cats like to use their sand box as a toilet). Stray cats tear into peoples’ trash, kill song birds, fight with one another and spread disease to one another, drink antifreeze, get hit by cars or mauled by dogs, and may even wind up being the cause of a baby born with birth defects, if they manage to transmit toxoplasmosis to a pregnant woman, through their feces.

            So the answer is, it has been human responsibility to keep cats indoors since we stopped being ignorant about why we should. And what the cat wants is not relevant to this. Your 2 year old might want to run out into the street, but you don’t let them do it, because it isn’t safe. That’s what being RESPONSIBLE is all about.

          • The Denver Diamond

            I can not own another being that is not myself.

          • WingedWolfPsion

            According to the law, you own your pets, and you are fully responsible for what they do. If you don’t agree with this, STOP OWNING PETS. Leave that to people who will behave responsibly.

          • The Denver Diamond

            According to the law white people use to own black people.

            Also I already said, i dont own any one.

          • WingedWolfPsion

            That’s lovely, but guess what? Cats are not humans. They are domesticated animals. They are not sapient.

            What you basically seem to be saying is that you acquire pet animals so you can put them outside to fend for themselves, in misguided belief that this is the right thing to do, because you have ‘set them free.’ This does make you a bad person. I hope that your shelter never allows you to adopt any pets, and I feel very bad for the ones you apparently feed, but don’t properly care for.

            And the dead cat, whose life was in your hands. The person who trapped it did the right thing. You did the wrong thing. At least that cat won’t die of antifreeze poisoning, or be savagely torn apart by an owl.

          • The Denver Diamond

            Human ego thinks it is superior to other animals.

          • WingedWolfPsion

            You can’t have it both ways. Either the cats are your pets, and you’re not a responsible caretaker, OR you’re releasing an invasive species into the environment, and causing the destruction of wildlife. Which is it? Domestic cats don’t belong in the environment. They kill native animals and compete with native predators. Apparently you have 0 concern for the lives of the birds, rabbits, and other individuals that your house cats kill. That’s sad.

            Again, the trappers did the RIGHT thing, by removing an invasive predator from the environment. Many birds kept their lives because the cat you set loose was captured. How can you even remotely justify what you do? Even if you believe that your cats should be able to live their lives as they see fit, there is no rational way you can possibly believe that they belong anywhere other than the environment they evolved in.

      • WingedWolfPsion

        Right. So, a billion birds a year die. Who cares about THEM? It’s only the cats that matter, right?

  • Kurai

    There are enough HOMELESS cats as it is, stop breeding not only more, but UGLY ones that will have a worse chance at finding a family!!

    • Austin

      most homeless cats are feral and unable to be placed successfully in a home because they are too wild. designer cats like these make up a very, very small proportion of cats in shelters (after all they cost $2000). you are oversimplifying a complicated issue. and ugliness is subjective, lots of people think these cats look awesome and are willing to pay to have them so I don’t see the problem here.

      • Inspector Spacetime

        ‘Most’ leaves ‘some’, and when the population is, in the aggregate, in the hundreds of millions, I don’t think it matters much what the proportion of feral cats are. It’s not 99.9%.

        So, no, in one sense you’re right. It’s not a problem. But it is disappointing. There are plenty of suitable and friendly cats available in need of adoption, facing death, and to spend thousands on a ‘designer’ animal seems indulgent and self-absorbed. But problem? No.

        • The Denver Diamond

          That is why people need to stop taking feral cats onto shelters. They dont belong there. Sure take them in to get fixed for the public safety but then release them back to their homes!

          • WingedWolfPsion

            They need to be euthanized immediately, so they stop breeding, killing, and spreading diseases.

          • The Denver Diamond

            By that logic we need to start to euthanize humans in third world countries and other indigent areas.

          • WingedWolfPsion

            I hate to be the one to break it to you, but humans are not cats. There is no equivalency, there. Your classism is horrifying – comparing distressed humans to stray cats? Really?
            House cats are a domesticated species, and it’s our responsibility to protect the environment from what we have created. There is no ‘logic’ behind equating them with humans in developing countries.

          • The Denver Diamond

            Why not protect the environment from us then?? We are a bigger threat than the cats are.

          • WingedWolfPsion

            Two wrongs don’t make a right. In other words, you’re engaging in logical fallacy. You’re bringing up irrelevant matters as though they have something to do with this discussion. Murder is a greater crime than stealing. Does that mean stealing is just fine? Of course not. If you can’t make your case rationally, admit it and concede.

          • The Denver Diamond

            You just did not understand what I was saying.

      • Avadon

        It’s only $2000.00 right now because of scarcity. When it drops to $20 and even the pet store can’t sell them, they’ll be in the kill shelters right along with all other cats. Trends only last a short time and this is what they’re doing, treating animal life as a trend to be enjoyed, then thrown out when the whim and novelty fades.

        • The Denver Diamond

          Responsible breeders maintain the populations….

          • WingedWolfPsion

            Responsible breeders barely affect the populations at ALL.

          • The Denver Diamond

            I meant their own populations so that they dont affect the major population.

    • The Denver Diamond

      Only human arrogance would cause any one to think that there is such a thing as a homeless cat. Cats are meant to be out doors cats are meant to be wild and free. Only humans seem to think that we must force them to be life time prisoners with in our man mad constructions and force them to live by OUR standards.

  • Alix

    This is my cat Maurice; my mom found him as a kitten at the local garbage dump (no kidding!) She thought he was a Siamese and so she called me and asked me if I wanted a kitten. Well, he’s obviously not a Siamese; I’m not sure if he’s one of these ‘Werewolf’ cats, or just a cat that has the same follicular condition, but it’s really neat to see some other cats who look like him :)

    Maurice is perhaps not the most beautiful of cats, although I think he is, but he’s really, really smart, and such a sweetheart. I wouldn’t change him. As much as I’d like another when he’s gone, though, $2000 is a bit much when there are cats in shelters! Rescue is a wonderful choice… it’s how I got him, after all.

    As you can see, he loves his heating pad, and his gray scarf.

    • WingedWolfPsion

      It’s possible that Maurice does have the same mutation as the lykoi cats. What did your vet say about him? Also, he COULD be a Siamese cat. Having the mutation wouldn’t make him not a Siamese. :) Maurice’s skin doesn’t look quite normal, however. I assume he’s been tested for things like mange mites?

      • Alix

        Several vets have been unable to determine his particular issues. He has bumpy skin. Not mange/ mites. It’s just him. And, of course, he might be a Siamese… he’s smart enough!

  • Tabitha Martin

    Why cant you come up with a new breed of cats that are not cruel vindictive assholes?

    • kelliegh

      Soon as humans aren’t cruel vindictive assholes! I have a sphynx cat. Yes I paid for her and yes I adore her. She came from a VERY responsible breeder. One who actually works on this breed as well. ALL of her kittens sold to pet homes ARE spayed/ neutered before leaving her home. She does not sell breeders to anyone and only has very few other breeders she works with. And to say we shouldn’t pay that much for and instead help at a shelter with that money, would be the equivalent of me telling you to not buy an iPhone/iPod or other name brand items but to instead purchase a cheaper model and donate the difference to a charity. While it would be nice… not going to happen. My cat is extremely healthy happy and clothed when it’s cold. But her breeder is very responsible and does use crossing, and her husband is a veterinarian.

      • Tabitha Martin

        Yes, people are just the same. But people are scorned and imprisoned when they treat other lives the way a cat does. Yet a cat is given a “free pass” because they are “cute”.

        • Austin

          no, not really. we bred cats to kill rodents and other pests for generations. blaming them for doing what we bred them for is ridiculous, we created them and it’s our fault they have that instinct, so if anything you should be arguing for neutering people. at least people have the capacity to know better.

          • WingedWolfPsion

            Actually, we domesticated cats because they were efficient predators, and we wanted them around us to control the rodents that ate our food. We didn’t make them predators.

        • kelliegh

          Once again are you asking for the destruction of all animal species? Or only the one you deem unworthy of love?

          • kelliegh

            Because like I said.. Dogs.. kill. Birds… kill. Fish.. kill. Many species are cannibalistic such as wild monkeys. So do we kill them all? Or do they “get a pass” because they are cute? Or because you deem them worthy?

      • Tabitha Martin

        Oh, and BTW, you love your cats? Try to get this through your head… understand that your cat would happily torture you to death, FOR PLEASURE, were it not for the size difference. Imagine this, actually contemplate this, if we could shrink you down to 3 inches tall, and we lock you in an empty room with your cat. With a bowl of food for your cat, and water. Just for 1 hour… you might finally understand the creature that you pour your love into. IF you survive…

        • kelliegh

          Well I guess I’m lucky I’m not 3 inches tall. Guess we should kill all cats/ dogs and any animals for that matter huh? Many dogs kill for sport. Birds kill and eat bugs and some even eat other birds!! And fish OMG! Lol get real nature in general is harsh. And people are 10 times worse

          • Tabitha Martin

            Sooooo, you dismissed the scenario with out even considering it. Just like every cat lover does… yes, there are plenty of animals that kill to eat. And a few that kill for sport, like dogs. But with a rare couple of other animals, (people, dolphins), animals do not sadistically torture to death anything they can catch

          • kelliegh

            There are many animals that torture and Maime their kill. Wolves for example often will have one member of the pack hold prey down by the face, so they can be eaten alive from the bottom up. Birds namely Turkey are vicious and will torment and eat baby quail like m&m’ s. Chimpanzees will hunt down and murder smaller monkeys. These don’t simply kill to eat they take their time, pouncing and playing with the creatures they kill.
            I considered your scenario but here’s the problem.. I AM a logical being.. you want to hate cats for doing what they do but not answer about all the other creatures doing.. The same thing? That is why I can not take your rambling serious. If you simply hated violence in all species, I could respect that. But the fact that you violent enough to believe ANY species deserves to be eradicated by your standards would nominate you as next in line for eradication would it not? Personally I am not a cat lover.. I love my cat not all cats

          • Alix

            I’m pretty sure being ‘sadistic’ requires self-awareness. Stop anthropomorphizing cats. They hunt the way nature made them, end of story. Losing your mind over a behavior that, again, is instinct, is ridiculous.

          • The Denver Diamond

            My cat seems pretty self aware to me….

          • WingedWolfPsion

            It’s instinct in humans, too. We could simply accept that the trait exists, and work to manage the consequences, rather than judging or ignoring it.

          • Alix

            I don’t really equate ‘sadism’ in animals with the same in people, but everyone’s got an opinion, right? My point is, no reason to condemn cats for their instinctual behavior.

          • WingedWolfPsion

            Nope – we only blame owners, for allowing their pets to cause harm to wildlife, property, and each other.

          • Alix

            Have fun with that!

          • The Denver Diamond

            In my experience humans are worse than cats….

        • The Denver Diamond

          I have had cats with pet rats and they were actually terrified of the things. Another cat loved ferrets and would play with them even though she was twice their size…..

      • Inspector Spacetime

        There may be good reasons to ‘never’ sell a breed-capable cat, but chances are somewhere left unspoken is because she doesn’t want the competition. But she’s ‘very responsible’ when she breeds these cats for a random, specific look, so I guess that’s ok.

        • kelliegh

          Let’s face it, EVERY breed is for a certain trait. Whether dog, cat, pig, cow, chicken.. you name it and you will find “desirable” traits. Many ONLY for looks. What type of cat / dog do you own? Even mutts have specifics from the breeds they originated from.

    • Austin

      because we selectively bred cats to hunt rodents for generations upon generations. if you care that much about this why don’t you actually do something and selectively breed your own cats to be less aggressive instead of wasting your time trying to convince cat-lovers that all cats should be eradicated?

    • WingedWolfPsion

      Ragdolls are a work in progress.

  • Tabitha Martin

    All cats should be declawed or killed instead of createing new breeds.

    • GlassJawn

      Reading your facebook comments and judging from what you have written here I suggest you seek mental help. You are demanding the killing of the most popular animal on this planet. In one of your other posts you call Phillip Seymour Hoffman “heroin boy” and revel in his death. Please get help.

    • WingedWolfPsion

      This makes as much sense as the things the other anti-Lykoi people are saying.

  • Avadon

    Another big loss for animals and big win for humans who want designer pets. This isn’t a dog with a thicker coat that can better survive the arctic Alaskan winter or a reptile that is less prone to respiratory infections. No this cat was bred specifically as a tongue in cheek nod to the fantasy idea of werewolves. Wow, thank god you bred these cats, because we just have to have every ridiculous, idiotic, and narcissistic whim of humanity explored.

  • Jimmy Tran

    I can hear that cat in the last photo thinking to himself, “Why was I born? Why?”

    • Avadon

      Or perhaps more.. “why was I purposefully born like this.” :(

  • Eric

    Where can I get one of these awesome kitties?????? This is the coolest breed I have seen in such a long time. As for the wide mouthed Boothby breed. Maybe someone should’ve neutered your dad considering how many perfectly cool human breeds we have on earth already. We dont need defective breeds like yours.

    • Avadon

      WTF are you talking about. Humans don’t have breeds. Facepalm!!

  • Karolina Jones

    Breeders are disgusting.

  • Katie Colon

    Poor babies are so uggie-and yes, to keep breeding to keep a mutation of hairlessness and all is absurd imho.

  • Sweets

    I have a cat that looks just like these! She’s thirteen years old, a stray, found about an hour south of St. Louis, MO. she’s stumped vets and cat lovers everywhere to what type of cat she is. She’s very cuddly and loves warm spots!

    • Alix

      I have a stray like this, too! I posted some pictures further down, if you want to see :) Yes, mine loves his heating pad, or crouching over the heating grate in the floor, and LOVES it when we have a fire in the fireplace!

  • marie

    some of you have to relize even if humans dont breed them theres all sorts of cats on the streets and they can breed themselves and not all of them have to have any health issues and they will multiply and theres rescues that take kittens off the streets make sure there healty and put them for adoption so if there breed by humans or self bread these cats will still be out there somewhere and they will multiply so theres no point in trying to stop it

    • The Denver Diamond

      STOP TAKING WILD ANIMALS OFF THE STREETS! People often mistake my damn cats for wild cats and one of my cats was killed by the shelter because of the fact that I could not prove that she specifically was my cat and not just a cat that looked like my cat even though that was like the 5th time i had to pick her up and pay the 50 dollar adoption fee each freaking time. Eventually i did not have the 50 with in the week holding period and they killed her. STOP TAKING CATS IN!!!! Let them live their life of freedom they are not meant to be cooped up like prisoners.

      • WingedWolfPsion

        You should have all of your cats taken away. You obviously are not the type of person who should own pets; you are irresponsible, and don’t take proper care of them.

        • SeniorPotamo

          Yes, cats really need to be treated like dogs – taken properly care
          of. They need to be kept inside (for their own and for wildlife’s sake),
          let outside only to a outdoor enclosure or taken to walks with
          harnesses on. No one lets their dog to roam freely at least in my
          country, why so many of you risk your cat’s life so easily? Many get hit
          by cars, eaten by natural predators or killed by humans who hate cats.

          There seems to be no harm with this breed, until stated otherwise, I’m not against with breeding the lykoi.

          It
          would be ideal, if only registered breeding would be allowed and
          properly supervised. Maybe a “pet owners driver’s licence” should be
          mandatory for anyone, who desires to have a pet (or any animal at all).
          Of course if this would be reality, there still would be problems, you
          can never eliminate them all.

          I support animal
          welfare and also animal rights to a point. I think that the wellbeing of
          livestock should be wastly improved for example.

          I
          understand how some of you feel about breeding while many cats and dogs
          are in shelters. When people start to buy more an more bred cats from
          reputable breeders, they don’t want to buy any from the bad ones. Of
          course it would be ideal, if all animals which are in shelters would be
          adopted first, but people don’t work that way. It’s unrealistic to think
          that way and judge people, who want a bred pet. When you buy a pet from
          a reputable breeder, you know the animals history. With a rescue-pet,
          you know nothing, the pet may be tremendously inbred (it happens, when
          farm cats breed freely), in fact more inbred than many “purebred” cats.
          It may become far more costly to own a rescue-pet than a bred pet due to
          possible vet bills which could have been avoided with responsible
          breeding.

          My English is not perfect, I apologize for any mistakes.

  • Shannon Ansbach

    Mimi you do realize that most breeds of cats come from some sort of defect or mutation. A Calico cat is a genitic mutation that happens in only female cats..rarely is there a male. Just like Ginger or Orange tabbies are prodominatly male. And by your view should we “neuter” people who carry the genitic mutated genes that cause their offspring to be born with down syndrome, Autism, or other physical and/or mental genetic deformities.

    • Avadon

      Breeders stay away from defects for obvious reasons. Obviously not the breeder of these cats, but in general the point is to stay away from defects and only select the best traits.

      Why should we manipulate animal genetics for our own arrogance? You make it sound like because it’s been done, it should be done.

      And yes people who give birth to children with down syndrome are generally very careful about giving birth again. But apparently in animals if you give birth to a defect then you proliferate and exploit it. Makes no damn sense.

      • Desi Collison

        Again, How do you know it is a ‘defect’. Defect implies that there is something WRONG with it. It is a MUTATION, not a gene defect. BIG difference. Humans at one point had hair all over their body, but thanks to a mutation, we now don’t. Was it wrong of humans to breed together and create more hairless babies? No. because you think it is okay because we’re human and that it is natural.

        There is no such thing as careful. Because even if the kid is perfectly healthy, the gene is still in them and they pass it on. Yet, I don’t see you complaining about that. You think it is perfectly okay.

  • neetsie71

    while there are MILLIONS of cats and kittens being KILLED in pounds and shelters all over the world, why bring in a new breed? HOW ARROGANT!!!!! PLEASE DO NOT LET THIS BREED INTO AUSTRALIA! our WILDLIFE is struggling enough from FERAL and DOMESTIC cats killing it!!

    • The Denver Diamond

      What is arrogant is human belief that these animals have to be in human homes and so they take them to shelters to be killed instead of letting them live a life of freedom in the wild where they belong.

      • WingedWolfPsion

        Domestic cats do not belong in the wild. Wild cats belong in the wild. Our native predators would like a break from all this competition we forced on them.

  • Leighann Looney

    if this trait gets out in the cat population, there will be a whole lot more ‘unadoptable’ cats in shelters. who wants a patchy persian? who wants a calico with mangey arms? no undercoat would be horrific for the animals in winter. sure beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but my goodness… no one seems to have thought out what this will do once its rampant. so many sweet kitties that would otherwise find homes will join the ones who never do.. because of a defect some clowns decided they wanted to breed. breeding is terrible considering how many great pets there are being euthanized daily. potential goat rope.

    • Basia Nova

      Exactly!!

    • The Denver Diamond

      First off why do cats need to live in human homes? They dont. It pisses me off when people take wild cats to shelters, THAT is why the shelters are super full.

      Second off this has benefits to learning as well. I would sooooo adopt one of these kitties… though i am a crazy cat lady ha ha

    • WingedWolfPsion

      I love the way these cats look, and your understanding of the gene is not really there.

  • Lorna L Pratt

    There are a lot of cruel individuals that would love to torture and kill anything that looks a little different. Hell, they do it to cute kittens! Why make something that will endure a lot of ridicule? There are way too many cats and kittens out there in feral colonies, in shelters, in foster homes. Spay and neuter. Don’t shop – Adopt!

    • Avadon

      Not to mention cats with skin diseases that already look like this one and need care. Why breed more cats that look like they have skin diseases and probably will contact them due to the lack of hair. It’s utter absurdity.

      • The Denver Diamond

        because this way they are healthy and easier to are for?

  • Meredith Harley Inserra

    ADOPT A CAT WHO NEEDS A HOME, DON’T SHOP FOR A DESIGNER CAT!!

    • The Denver Diamond

      Why not do both? Those cats end up in shelters too when they dont sell, assuming they live that long.

  • w j

    1, this cat is scary. 2, there are millions of cats out there that need a home. Prepare to find 200,000 of this breed in your local human society! Euthinasia all around!

  • Kathleen Chambers

    mimi boothby, you are an idiot.

  • Bhig Bhad Wolf

    “Natural Mutation”… you mean the result of years of PURPOSEFUL inbreeding and breeding deformations and genetic malfunctions. Sounds HEALTHY.

    Another cat that has special needs, health issues, and comes with all sorts of special care needs that the every day idiot who buys one is not going to be able to properly meet… all so these loser “breeders” can make MONEY. Shame on them all. I hope there IS a Hell so these people can rot in it for the suffering they cause to these innocent creatures that we are SUPPOSED to be CARING for.

    • Avadon

      I found it most interesting that when you go to the youtube videos all comments are disabled. Obviously they too know they are doing something irresponsible.

      • WingedWolfPsion

        No, they just know that people on the internet feel free to be jerks. I would buy one of these cats. So, what they’re doing is very responsible. The cats will have great homes.

  • Avadon

    I have every faith that when the trend runs out for these poor animals they will be put to death at the shelter just as fast as any other animal.

  • Desi Collison

    You so called ‘animal activists’ bitch and complain about how humans breed for vanity and that you hear mutation and INSTANTLY assume bad. Guess what, how do you know it is a defect? You don’t. Mutations are naturally occurring. Nothing to do with humans. They can be spontaneous or effected by environment. Now, they have LOOKED for every known disease and defect in these cats and found nothing. Meaning, Can someone guess, DINGDINGDING! Naturally occurring and guess what? If this cat had been wild or stray, pretty good chance of passing on the gene anyways.

    Saying it is defective and wrong of them for to breed? Who are you to judge that? It’s the same as saying two parents who carry the gene for autism shouldn’t be together or have babies because they are passing on a defect. But do you dare to say that to anyone? No. Because you are hypocritical and quick to jump, assuming you know everything. If you care so much about animals, how about focusing efforts on spaying and neutering feral colonies of cats or adopting out dogs who have defects due to natural or accident? They are FAR more important that bitching about a breed of cat that will only ever end up going to people who can afford to buy one AND care for it. It’s not like the breeders would just sell to anyone either. A good breeder would ensure their animals are going to a good home.

  • Karen Josephson

    Over 2 million cats and kittens are killed in American animal shelters every year. Breeding cats and “inventing new breeds” is an arrogant, egregious and misguided activity. YES – the article stated that the fifrst two kittens they found were “accidents of nature.” OK fine. BUT the good Vet is now breeding FOR the mutation and crossing as many as he can find to create a Gene Pool – or should we say money pool. Breeding for genetic mutations has NEVER produced a healthy breed. White Boxers, Dappled Dachshunds, Fawn Dobies, and more are everyday proof.
    This is a licensed Veterinarian looking to make money and feed his God complex at the expense of the animals.

    • The Denver Diamond

      Actually breeding genetic mutations HAS proven useful. Nature does it all the time which is how we end up with evolution.

  • LanceJZ

    I would like to know how something looks like something that does not exist. The cat looks more like a rat to me.

  • Nicky

    I’ve enjoyed reading the comments. I can’t believe how many of you don’t understand mutations. Mutations occur naturally, sometimes bad, sometimes good. How do you think we got here? We got here through a series of mutations, specifically started from mutations in the chimpanzee and the bonobo. We had ancestors before us who didn’t make it like the neanderthal. But we did. The modern homo sapien.

    To say these cats should not be allowed to breed because they’re a mutation is absolutely hypocritical. Blue eyes started as a mutation, should I not be allowed to breed because they’re *gasp* a mutation? While I don’t agree with overpopulation and such either, it’s ridiculous to discriminate against a breed for the natural mutation when we should be going after the humans who don’t treat their animals right or were not educated about animals and their needs.

    Education is a big must, notice how in areas with more education, they have their heads on straight, they know what they’re doing. They have more empathy for others and the creatures around them as well as access to research for the benefit of everything around them. While places with lack of education are usually in a state of conflict and usually act out of superstition or something outdated. You don’t see those places studying recycling or something. Some of you are thinking of selective breeding, where we would breed specific species together to make a new one. This occurred naturally.

    These cats post no health issues found SO FAR, seeing as it’s a new breed. They are being studied, they have to go through the whole process first before being an official breed. And if you even bothered to research them at all, they are good for people with cat allergies due to their lack of undercoat. Less hair = less allergy problems. Of course, there’s other types of allergies such as saliva and whatnot. It varies from person to person.They’re not meant for the wild, but then again, how many of our household pets are? Besides perhaps a Bengal or any other cat who’s bred from a wild cat or a husky closely related to a wolf, name a pet that would survive on it’s own. You wouldn’t be able to name any. That’s because *gasp* OUR PETS WERE MEANT TO BE WITH HUMANS. They’re not meant for the wild! To be debating on how well they would survive in the wild is ridiculous! You wouldn’t release your corgi to fend for themselves right? Nor your betta in the water. Chances are, they wouldn’t make it. Our pets are too friendly towards humans and they are meant to depend on humans. We domesticated them to get out the aggression and predatory instincts needed for the wild so they could be pets.

    If we’re going to argue about a breed, it needs to have evidence that it’s going to harm society or the breed itself. So far, it seems like it’s just fine. Instead of going against a breed, maybe we need to focus on the humans not knowing how to take care of their pets and get them educated? Because a lot of comments on here sound like a angry mob trying to burn a witch because she’s different from the crowd. It’s great to be advocating for animals and everything, but we all need to be educated on the facts, like biology and evolution. New breeds are always going to occur, pets today are evolving to be beside humans. It occurred throughout history after all! It’s their advantage. Where else are they going to find shelter, food, water, and someone to clean up after them? It’s a great gig!

    Sources for some of you who won’t post their own but demand the others to post:

    http://www.newscientist.com/special/accidents-human-evolution

    http://evolutionaryanthropology.duke.edu/research/3chimps/chimps-bonobos

    http://science.howstuffworks.com/zoology/mammals/dog2.htm

    http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2013/13/130514-dogs-domestication-humans-genome-science/

    http://pets.thenest.com/animal-did-cats-evolve-from-5250.html

    http://www.nytimes.com/2006/01/06/science/06cats.html?_r=0

    Wikipedia was also a great source of information, but I know some people won’t accept it as a source. :)

  • Wild_Wins

    Why would anyone breed for the trait of being ugly?
    No, really. Ugly.
    Don’t tell me beauty is in the eye of the beholder. That just says you are ugly too.
    Yes to everyone who says millions of BEAUTIFUL cats and kittens die every year. And here are some idiots breeding the “quality” of ugly. Congratulations.
    Now go home, stop breeding anything – I mean ANYTHING – and work toward solving the pet overpopulation problem.

  • SeniorPotamo

    Yes, cats really need to be treated like dogs – taken properly care
    of. They need to be kept inside (for their own and for wildlife’s sake),
    let outside only to a outdoor enclosure or taken to walks with
    harnesses on. No one lets their dog to roam freely at least in my
    country, why so many of you risk your cat’s life so easily? Many get hit
    by cars, eaten by natural predators or killed by humans who hate cats.

    There seems to be no harm with this breed, until stated otherwise, I’m not against with breeding the lykoi.

    It
    would be ideal, if only registered breeding would be allowed and
    properly supervised. Maybe a “pet owners driver’s licence” should be
    mandatory for anyone, who desires to have a pet (or any animal at all).
    Of course if this would be reality, there still would be problems, you
    can never eliminate them all.

    I support animal
    welfare and also animal rights to a point. I think that the wellbeing of
    livestock should be wastly improved for example.

    I
    understand how some of you feel about breeding while many cats and dogs
    are in shelters. When people start to buy more an more bred cats from
    reputable breeders, they don’t want to buy any from the bad ones. Of
    course it would be ideal, if all animals which are in shelters would be
    adopted first, but people don’t work that way. It’s unrealistic to think
    that way and judge people, who want a bred pet. When you buy a pet from
    a reputable breeder, you know the animals history. With a rescue-pet,
    you know nothing, the pet may be tremendously inbred (it happens, when
    farm cats breed freely), in fact more inbred than many “purebred” cats.
    It may become far more costly to own a rescue-pet than a bred pet due to
    possible vet bills which could have been avoided with responsible
    breeding.

    My English is not perfect, I apologize for any mistakes.

  • Hania Trzaskowski

    Breeding animals for our pleasure, when millions are out fine daily around the world because they don’t have homes, is irresponsible in the first place . If you love animals, take care of the ones already on this planet before ‘creating’ more.

  • Beth Fekete

    I wonder if this same argument happened the first time a random orange tabby and an every day black cat got together and out came a calico kitten.

  • Rev. Clinton Nusbaumer

    Opinions can vary, but science does not, that is what makes it incontrovertable evidence. In the case of the lykoi, you may be of the opinion that they should not be bred, and that is fine. It is your right. Or you may be of the opinion that they are hideous to look at, and again this is your right because opinions, unlike science, are subjective. However, in this case Dr. and Mrs. Gobble have spent $30,000.00 on the top veterinary specialists in their fields tests and procedures, and all of them have spoken with one loud and resounding voice. TO THE BEST OF OUR KNOWLEDGE THIS MAY BE ONE OF THE HEALTHIEST BREEDS OF CAT TODAY. Rev. Clinton Nusbaumer (SILVERBULLET LYKOI, USA)

  • Joanne Feller

    OMG I now know what my Gidget is@! She is a Lykoicat! She fits the description to a t and, we had her skin/hair tested. No health problems with her. She is just the ugliest cat we have and the most lovable and sweetest!